Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Audio Recording Sept 2015 Transcript and Analysis

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Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Audio Recording Sept 2015 Transcript and Analysis

 

If you are wondering,  Did Johnny Depp abuse Amber Heard? Did Amber Heard abuse Johnny Depp? What did Amber Heard do to Johnny Depp?, this recorded conversation offers a lot of answers supplied by Johnny and Amber themselves. 

Amber Heard and Johnny Depp created an audio recording of a conversation they had September 26, 2015. In this 2-hour-long conversation, Johnny stays calm and is suggesting ways to make their relationship better. Amber morphs from angry and demeaning to demure.

Johnny and Amber's Sept 2015 conversation was released as two recordings of one hour each. This post includes links and full transcripts for both recordings, and background to give you context for what Amber and Johnny are talking about.

I also point out some of what I noticed in this interaction based on my years of experience studying partner abuse, writing about it, and working with hundreds of couples who have experienced, or are experiencing, abuse from one partner or both. 

In this recorded conversation, Amber admits to throwing things at Johnny and hitting him while calling him "a baby" for having a problem with her physical attacks.

Johnny repeatedly asks that things not get physical anymore and that they make a plan for positive changes including calling a time out if things get heated.

Amber resists Johnny's suggestions to give each other space when they are angry and she repeatedly chastises Johnny for not staying and fighting. This is not what one would expect to hear someone say to their abuser.

Listening to Amber and Johnny's conversation reminds me of the stories that I have heard from men who are abused by women. (I write about some of those stories in my book Abuse OF Men BY Women: It Happens, It Hurts, and It's Time to Get Real About It.)

 

What's In This Post

Background on Amber's Abuse Allegations Against Johnny
Background on Johnny's Response to Amber's Abuse Allegations and His Accusations Against Amber
Why the Sept 26, 2015 Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Conversation was Recorded
Background: What Happens Before the Recordings
In the Recordings: Amber Admits to Being a Batterer
In the Recordings: Amber Call's Johnny a Baby for Not Taking Her Abuse
In The Recordings: Amber Chastises Johnny for "Splitting"
In the Recordings: Johnny Suggests Ways To Avoid Fights, Amber Resists
Johnny Would Remove Himself When Amber Got Violent
In the Recordings: Amber Admits Throwing Things at Johnny
In the Recordings: Amber Tries to Sell Johnny on the Marriage
Full Transcript Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Audio Recording Sept 2015, Hour One (also link for the audio recording)
Full Transcript Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Audio Recording, Sept 2015, Hour Two (also link for the audio recording)

 

[Disclaimer: I am not officially or formally diagnosing anyone or anything in this post. I am sharing my observations and impressions, but recognize that I have limited access to information and haven't met any of the parties personally.]

Throughout this post, during the transcript and when I quote sections from the transcript, I have put *'s into the swear words, not because I am prudish, but because I am concerned that the amount of swear words could tick off Google and other search engines. 

 

Domestic Violence Partner Abuse Books 

 

Before listening to Johnny and Amber's recorded conversation, it's helpful to know the backstory.

Background on Amber's Abuse Allegations Against Johnny  

In her 2016 Request for a Restraining Order against Johnny Depp, Amber Heard testified that:

“During the entirety of our relationship, Johnny has been verbally and physically abusive to me. I endured excessive emotional, verbal and physical abuse from Johnny, which has included angry, hostile, humiliating and threatening assaults to me whenever I questioned his authority or disagreed with him.”

 

From Amber's statement for Johnny's libel case against the Sun for their "wife-beater" article:

"The physical abuse included punching, slapping, kicking, head-butting and choking me, as well as throwing me into things, pulling me by my hair, and shoving me or pushing me to the ground. He threw things at me, especially glass bottles. He was always antagonized by shows of will, like me standing up after he had knocked me down. . . .

The verbal abuse included screaming, swearing and threatening me; but it also included what I would call extremely controlling and intimidating behaviour. Having had time to reflect on things, I recognize that this sort of intimidation, isolation, and control is also abusive."

 

Background on Johnny's Response to Amber's Abuse Allegations and His Accusations Against Amber

Johnny denies ever having abused Amber. He accused Amber of abusing him.

Johnny's statement in his UK libel case against The Sun:

"I have never abused Ms Heard, or, indeed, any other woman, in my life. "

"From early on in our relationship and throughout the course of it, Ms Heard was abusive to me physically and verbally. The abuse was such a common occurrence that it is difficult for me to specify when and where such abuse took place as it was essentially ongoing.

When being abused by Ms Heard, my normal reaction was to try not to engage with her and then to remove myself from the situation. Because of that, she would then often call me a 'coward' and tell me that I am 'not a man.'

However, I learned very early on in our relationship that Ms Heard was extremely argumentative and would often look to have a fight for no particular reason. I also learnt that it was pointless to try to engage with Ms Heard when she was in such a mood: this would simply aggravate her even more. Therefore, it was better to try to wait for her mood to subside and then subsequently seek to try to placate her and to smooth things over."

 

 

Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Relationship and Legal Battles Timeline

 

To find out more background information about what is going on in 
Amber and Johnny's life at the time of this recording and more about their relationship, check out my post: Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Relationship and Legal Battles Timeline

 

 

 

Why the Sept 26, 2015 Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Conversation was Recorded

why was Johnny and Amber conversation recorded

 

Amber and Johnny both agreed to record some of their conversations during their marriage. They offer different versions of the purpose of the recordings.

The Sept 26, 2015 recordings became part of the UK trial for Johnny's libel lawsuit against The Sun newspaper. 

During Johnny's testimony, both Amber and Johnny's reasoning for recording their conversations was mentioned. (You can read about it in the Day 1 Sun libel trial transcript of Johnny's time on the stand.)

 

Amber's Statement About Why They Recorded Conversations

Johnny's attorney presented Amber's version of why the recordings were made. (pages 23-24)

Reading from Amber's statement, the attorney said Amber testified that:

"Johnny and I regularly recorded our conversations during our relationship. As I said in my third witness statement, recording conversations started as part of our relationship therapy, in order to help us communicate more effectively."

"They were also a tool to remind Johnny of what he would do when using drugs and alcohol because he would not remember or would deny what he had said. I wanted to show Johnny what he was capable of to help him with his recovery."

 

 Amber Heard why the audio recordings were made

 

 

Johnny's Testimony About Why They Recorded Conversations

The attorney then asked if Johnny agreed with Amber's characterization of the purpose of the recordings.  (page 24 of the Day 1 trial transcript)

Q. “Do you accept, Mr. Depp, that explanation as to what the purpose of these recordings was, or not?”

A. “No. I do not exactly.”

Q. “Can you just explain, in your own words, just in one or two sentences, please, what the purpose you understood these recordings to be?”

A. “Really, in our relationship, we, as you progress to start to know one another, conversations happen, and then later, when you refer to the conversation, to that other person, which would have been Ms. Heard, her -- she would say something very different from what we had talked about before. It was radically different.

So, I, at the time, thought that the best thing to do was to record the conversation and so I retrieved my telephone and brought it to where we were talking and I said, 'I am going to record this conversation', just so that she knew, I wanted it to be out in the open.

So, I could then later reference the tape if she were to -- if once again her words later did not match what I know they were, what she had said on the recording. So, I used it to play it back to her, just to show her what she said, essentially."

 

Johnny Depp why recordings were made

 

Analysis of Their Presented Reasons for the Recordings

Amber uses every opportunity she can find to bring up Johnny's drug and alcohol use. Johnny does not deny that he has used and over-used drugs and alcohol. While substance abuse can potentially contribute to domestic violence, it is not a given. 

Johnny's presented reason for wanting the recordings to refer back to because Amber will change her story about what she had said previously fits if he is dealing with someone who gaslights him.

Amber does seem to fit the pattern of a gaslighter as she tries to gaslight Johnny during the course of this recording. [Note: Travis is Johnny's security guard.]

During the 1st hour (20:50 to 25:32), there is a back-and forth conversation about Johnny calling her on lying to Travis the night before. Johnny witnessed her lie. Amber treats him like he is imagining it. That is text-book gaslighting. Here's a small piece of the exchange:

Amber (23:07) What are you f**king talking about? I didn't f**king even have a f**king thing to lie about. What are you f**king talking about? Every f**king fight. There's a new thing that you've convinced yourself is a lie.

Johnny (23:17)  No. I said to you, "Amber, tell Travis what you just did."

Amber (23:21) [Laughs.]

Johnny (23:21) "Did you just f**king, did you just punch me in the f**king jaw? Did you f**king hit? Did you? Did you?" And you wouldn't say f**king thing? You said, "I don't know what you're f**king talking about. Never f**king, never f**king happened."

Amber (23:30) I see the lie. [Sarcasm] You really should run with this. In fact, maybe you and Travis can go and like, go and like, you know, go and do a tell all about what a, do an investigative study.

 

During the 2nd hour, Amber gaslights Johnny about gaslighting him:

Amber (2- 05:30)
I don't ever lie. I know you and I remember, see things differently sometimes, but I'm not lying. For someone who . . . I know that's your deepest fear and that's why it comes up in fights and stuff. But you got of trust issue in general, in life.

I never f**ked you over. I'm not going to. And anybody who knows me if they do list two or three things about me. Adjectives about me. One of those three would be super honest, straightforward, honest. 

Amber says "I don't ever lie" . . ."you got a trust issue." But she was caught lying the night before and they discussed it in the 1st hour of the conversation.

Many times throughout recordings of conversations between Johnny and Amber, and in public and court declarations, Amber accuses Johnny of being paranoid and not trusting her.

Of course, someone can say their partner is paranoid if their partner is unreasonably jealous or doubts their partner's word even though they have no good reason to doubt them.

On the other hand, telling you that you are overreacting and unreasonable is a common gaslighting technique used by a partner who is caught lying. There is a lot of evidence that Amber has a pattern of lying. I'll get into that in another post that I'm working on. 

 

Did Amber Heard Gaslight Johnny Depp?

 

 

Background: What Happens Before the Recordings

On Sept 14 and 15, 2015, Amber and Johnny are in LA. Johnny has 2 residences in LA: a multi-unit penthouse apartment and a single-dwelling house.

From the recording contents, it appears that Johnny and Amber had been together at the penthouse the evening of Sept 14th until they fought. To get away from the fight, Johnny left and went to his house. 

In this recorded conversation, Amber admits that she hit Johnny the previous evening. She tries to minimize the harm of her hitting Johnny, but she admits that she did hit him. 

 

In the Recordings: Amber Admits to Being a Batterer  

Amber admits to domestic violence. She admits to hitting Johnny. 

She doubles and triples her abuse by minimizing it and acting as if Johnny should be OK with it. 

 

Amber Admits to Getting Physical

During the 2nd hour of the recorded conversation, Amber says she gets physical and out of control. 

Amber Heard (2- 18:33)

"I can't promise you that I'll be perfect. I can't promise you I won't get physical again. God, I f**king sometimes get so mad, I lose it." 

 

Amber Heard admits to domestic violence in Sept 2015 audio recording

 

Amber Admits to Hitting Johnny

In the 1st hour of the conversation, Amber admits to hitting Johnny the night before, but minimizes it and claims Johnny is overreacting.

Amber (25:36)

"I didn't punch you. I didn't punch you. By the way. I'm sorry that I didn't
hit you across the face in a proper slap. But I was hitting you. It was not punching you. Babe, you're not punched.

You didn't get punched. You got hit. I'm sorry I didn't hit you like this. But I did not punch you. I did not f**king deck you. I f**king was hitting you. I don't know what the motion of my actual hand was, but you're fine. I did not hurt you. I did not punch you. I was hitting you."

[This whole exchange, from 25:36 to 25:56, about whether Amber "punched" or "hit" Johnny is another example of Amber's gaslighting.]

 

Amber Heard and Johnny Depp recording Amber husband beater

 

 

 

 

How women overcome their size disadvantage domestic violence

A lot of people have a hard time realizing that women can physically abuse their male partners and that it is harmful. In my post Signs of a Physically Abusive Wife or Girlfriend, I talk about the ways that abusive women overcome their size disadvantage when they physically abuse their husbands and boyfriends.

 

In the Recordings: Amber Call's Johnny a Baby for Not Taking Her Abuse

Men who are physically abused by a woman have extra degrees of difficulty in dealing with the abuse because it goes against societal expectations of men as strong and stereotypes of women as non-aggressors.

Amber uses the male and female gender roles against Johnny by shaming him for being abused and for not taking her abuse. (Starts at 26:15.)

Amber: "That's the difference between me and you. You're a f**king baby."

Johnny: "Because you start physical fights?"

Amber: "You are such a baby! Grow the f**k up!"

Johnny: "Because you start physical fights?"

Amber Heard: "I did start a physical fight."

Johnny: "Yeah, you did. So I had to get f**k out of there."
 

 

Johnny and Amber recording transcript Amber calls Johnny a baby for not taking her abuse

 

 

In The Recordings: Amber Chastises Johnny for "Splitting" 

Amber repeatedly (over a dozen times) chastises Johnny for "splitting" when there is a fight.

If I were working with anyone, man or woman, who is on the receiving end of physical abuse from a partner, I would advise the abused person to leave the situation if possible. And I would also advise them to make a safety plan for exiting when your partner becomes violent. 

Amber says she feels unsafe in the relationship because she fears Johnny leaving when there is a fight: 

Amber (00:11): "I feel like all the trust is gone. All the f**king trust. It's is gone in the relationship because you keep splitting. We fight together. But you're the only one who splits and I want that back." 

Amber (07:08): "every time you don't like what I say, and you f**king run away, we never work out anything. You can't run away every fight. You can't. It's easy. It's not brave. It's not strong."  

Amber: "But I haven't even been able to have, like, a fight with you beyond, in any real talking kind of speaking context in so long because any time anything goes wrong, you split. I feel like it's your first thing. And it's unnecessary. It's not always you're splitting because there's blows or because there's yelling or anything. You split many, most times when I'm still speaking in this volume, and nothing has been thrown or hit or anything." (28:56)

Amber (33:14): "I never feel that safe. I constantly feel like you're about to f**king split.

 

And, after admitting that she hit Johnny the night before this conversation, Amber blames her actions on Johnny not sticking around to be abused by her (starts at 33:45):

Amber: "You always split. So that's, why wouldn't I? I do blame myself for my actions yesterday, but I also don't think"

Johnny: "I was laying in bed watching television, man. I was laying in bed watching television."

Amber: "I f**ked up last night. I'm not going to defend myself, but I also can't blame me going to the finish line. . ."

 

 

 Question

Would someone who is being abused in the ways that Amber says Johnny abused her have their big reason for feeling unsafe in the relationship be that her partner doesn't stick around and fight? 

 

Johnny Would Remove Himself When Amber Got Violent

Johnny's pattern of removing himself to get away from Amber's aggression comes up in Johnny's description of events and testimony from his staff in declarations for court proceedings.

Witness Statement, Johnny Depp, Sun Libel Trial:

"When being abused by Ms Heard, my normal reaction was to try not to engage with her and then to remove myself from the situation. Because of that, she would then often call me a "coward" and tell me that I am "not a man." However, I learned very early on in our relationship that Ms Heard was extremely argumentative and would often look to have a fight for no particular reason.

I also learnt that it was pointless to try to engage with Ms Heard when she was in such a mood: this would simply aggravate her even more. Therefore, it was better to try to wait for her mood to subside and then subsequently seek to try to placate her and to smooth things over."

 

Johnny's texts Amber's mother, Paige Heard, Oct 2015:


"My sincere apologies, darling Paige ... But, today/tonight she threw a fit, which I could feel coming ... apologized to her 1,000 times because I ruined her night by hiding in the only place she can't get to me, my bathroom... Because she was hateful, hurt and treated me like scum of the earth ...
As I walked out of the door, she burst out and began her hugely insulting TIRADE by throwing a full bottle of iced tea at the back of my head ... ! have now left ... ! actually had to ask Security to come in and intercede, just like I did the last time she punched me in the jaw a couple of times (which has happened on numerous occasions) .... "

 

Witness Statement of Johnny's personal assistant Stephen Deuters, 12 December 2019:

"on the multiple times when Mr Depp was abused by Ms Heard - he would take himself away from the situation, often to a bathroom, and lock himself out of harm's way. During the course of their relationship, I remember Mr Depp telling me that he would lock himself in the bathroom on multiple occasions and I remember turning up to find him locked in a bathroom on one occasion"

  

In the Recordings: Johnny Suggests Ways To Avoid Fights, Amber Resists

Abused partners are often grasping to find something to try to make things better.

Throughout the 2 hours that Amber and Johnny talk, Johnny suggests several ways that their relationship could improve. For the most part, Amber nay-says his suggestions. 

 

Johnny Begs For the Fighting to End

Johnny (13:58): But just try. Let's both try. If there's anger. If there's something really f**king poking us in the ass, let's try. Try not to f**king fight. Try to address it without jumping down each other's throats. 

Amber (14:46): . . .I'm speaking specifically about I don't trust the marriage. I don't trust you. I don't feel safe with it because you always f**king bail on it. 

Johnny (15:12): I'm telling you, as much as you don't like that sh*t in your marriage, I don't like the guff that you put on me in our marriage. And, if it causes distrust in me, it causes distrust in me. Sometimes I don't, I don't want to f**king be there and go through the sh*t. I don't, man. I don't. Because I don't want to f**king fight.

 

Johnny Asks that They Speak With Respect

Johnny (2- 07:06): . . . Let's both pay attention to how we talk to each other, to respect each other.

Amber Heard (2- 07:17): We're not going to do that all the time.  

 

Johnny Asks that They Take Time Outs

A great deal of conversation during the 2nd hour revolves around Johnny trying to get Amber to accept the idea of taking a time away from each other to cool off when things get heated.

Amber repeatedly resists the suggestion of cooling off time away from each other. She repeatedly pushes that they stay together and fight it out. 

This is a red flag to me. Just like a car salesman doesn't want you to leave the car lot without purchasing a car, an abusive partner may not want you to get out of their reach and influence. With the car sales rep, they know that if you get a chance to get away, clear your mind, and look at your options, there is a good chance that you will not be back. An abusive partner can have similar concerns. They can be motivated to keep you close and under their control.

Here are just a couple of exchanges as examples.

Johnny  (2- 10:52): If things get physical, we have to separate. We have to be apart from one another. Whether it's for f**king an hour or 10 hours or f**king a day, we must. There can be no physical violence.

Amber (2- 11:13): I agree about the physical violence, but separating for a day or night, taking a night off from our marriage. That just means it opens up.

And a few minutes later:

Johnny (2- 15:36): . . .What we could do is just try to be f**king calm and say, "Look, this is getting somewhere I don't like. Please, let's take an hour, max." I'll go in and f**king write, and try and figure it out. Get it out. Whatever. I'm just making suggestions to try and f**king save us.

Amber (2- 16:57): We need to honor our promises. I cannot. Nor can you. You don't deserve to be in a relationship that is walked away from all the time. I would never want you to do that. I never want you to be there. You deserve better. So do I.

 

In the Recordings: Amber Admits Throwing Things at Johnny

Amber admits to throwing things at Johnny. Like with the hitting, she minimizes the abusiveness of her behavior and talks down to Johnny for not being OK with it. (See the first recording 17:29 to 19:30 for full exchange.)

Amber: "You never are the one to come and knock on my door. You take me for granted."

Johnny: "It's not true. It's not true. I'm not the one who f**king throws f**king pots, and whatever the f**king everything else at me."

Amber: "That's different. That's. One does not negate the other. That's irrelevant. It's a complete non sequitur. Just because I've thrown pots and pans does not mean that you come and knock on the door. . . ."

Johnny: "Really, I should just let you throw? . . . you seem to think that there's this cowardice in me that runs away and I don't fight for you. . . 

Because that is a f**king irrational and violent f**king maneuver. So a man would want to get out of that area so that he doesn't get so f**king angry that he actually does pop the f**king wife."

Amber: "How does one inform the other?"

 

 

Throwing things at their male partner is one of the ways that physically violent women overcome their size disadvantage. 

Note that Johnny claims that Amber threw a vodka bottle at him at close range March 2015 in Australia, severing his finger tip. Amber claims that Johnny was in a rage and accidently severed his own finger tip. The incident is not mentioned in this recording, but Amber admitting to throwing pots and pans potentially supports Johnny's version of events regarding his finger. (See Second Witness Statement of John Depp, Dec 2019 for The Sun libel case in the UK.)

Picture of Johnny Depp in Australian Hospital re Severed Finger Tip:

picture of Johnny Depp with severed finger

 

In the Recordings: Amber Tries to Sell Johnny on the Marriage

Amber repeatedly uses the word "safe" in reference to staying married. She tries to convince Johnny that he wants the marriage for his own safety. Here's a few examples:

Amber: "I know you got married for security and for safety. So did I." (10:12)

Amber: "You told me you wanted a foundation. You told me you wanted the security. You wanted the safety. You liked the foundation at the beginning, you said I really like having that. It feels safe. So don't argue with me when I say it now." (10:49)

Amber: ". . . you married me though, because you wanted some safety, some security, some stability, a foundation." (12:20)

In my book Abuse OF Men BY Women: It Happens, It Hurts, and It's Time to Get Real About It, I describe how manipulative people sell potential partners on the relationship and then resell them on the relationship if the hooked partner shows signs of wavering.

Abusive partners use similar sales techniques as those used by sales reps selling cars, widgets, or whatever.

One of the steps for selling taught by sales gurus is "Managing Objections." Amber is trying to manage Johnny's objections by convincing him that he wants the marriage.

That Amber tries to convince Johnny that he wants this marriage because it offers him safety is mind-numbing: this relationship is the opposite of safe for Johnny. It is not safe when they are having this conversation September 2015 and it will wreak havoc in his life for years to come. 

Since getting to know about Amber and Johnny's relationship, I have been wondering if she manipulated him into marrying her. Her sales job here makes me wonder more about that.  

 

Abuse OF Men BY Women: It Happens, It Hurts, and It's Time to Get Real About It
 

Full Transcript Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Audio Recording Sept 2015, Hour One

This is a full transcript of the first hour of Johnny and Amber's conversation. (You can find the audio and transcript for the 2nd hour after this transcript.)

It sometimes gets difficult to hear what is being said. Those periods are marked as "unintelligible". I listened to the recording repeatedly to try to pick up the quieter moments, but I couldn't get everything.

April 2022 Update on ways to listen to the conversation:

I'm not offering this as a perfect transcript, but I worked at making it really close. 

[Note and Warning: The times are approximate. The transcript includes swear words.]

 

Johnny Depp (00:02)

Thought that we have some sort of game plan.

 

Amber Heard (00:11) 

I told you what I needed. You said we should . . . but you don't. Seeing a counselor is just, it's not going to do anything. It's not alone. You know. We have to change how we do things when I want to trust you. And I feel like all the trust is gone. All the f**king trust. It's is gone in the relationship because you keep splitting. We fight together. But you're the only one who splits and I want that back.

 

Johnny Depp (00:49)

If there's no trust. There's nothing.

 

Amber Heard (00:52)

Then maybe there's nothing to talk about. But I did come over here with enough love in my heart and sincerity

 

Johnny Depp (00:58)

Thank you.

 

Amber Heard  (01:01)

to say to you that all the things I said, which now I feel like [sighs]. I meant them. You know I f**king meant them. Even though you f**king split, didn't come home. You know. I still did that. F**k it. I've shown myself. I've proven myself. I've fought for you. I've showed up.

 

Johnny Depp (01:25)

I'm not going to be in a physical f**king altercation with you.

 

Amber Heard (01:28)

Don't. Then don't.

 

Johnny Depp (01:29)

You f**king hit me last night. You f**king

 

Amber Heard (01:33)

What about all the other times you split. Come on. You cannot act like that it's about that. It's not.

 

Johnny Depp (01:38)

Well on a plane I can't split.

 

Amber Heard (01:40)

No. And you hit back. So don't act like you don't f**king participate.

 

Johnny Depp (01:43)

I pushed you.

 

Amber Heard (01:46)

I'm not going to get into the details of that fight. You and I both know that you split when there is no physical violence, and that you do it like at the very beginning of fights these days. And if you split, and you go into a different room and you don't actually leave that house, it does nothing but perpetuate the fight. And you don't actually do it respectfully. You don't do it in a way that actually means we won't fight. It always makes more fights. It always makes them longer. It never, ever, makes you calmer. You never come out going, "I want to talk," or "I'm okay," or "It's going to be okay". And I am, I'm sick and tired 100% of being the only one that goes and fights for it. You know what that does? It demoralizes the half of this relationship that is me. It demeans me. Demoralizes me.

 

Johnny Depp (02:35)

Really?

 

Amber Heard (02:36)

Yes. Really. When you split on me. How do you feel when I leave you?

 

Johnny Depp (02:40)

When I split, when I go into the other room, you're saying?

 

Amber Heard (02:46)

You get another room. You get a flight. Things like that. And you asked me not to Australia and ever since.

 

Johnny Depp (02:52)

No. How many?

 

Amber Heard (02:54)

I don't know. I'll have to count them up.

 

Johnny Depp (02:55)

No, because I haven't left you in the house. Maybe twice: last night and another time.

 

Amber Heard (03:02)

No, you've done it before. I've come here before. I'm not doing that anymore.

 

Johnny Depp (03:06)

Yeah. You've come here before. Last time, and another time--then last night.

 

Amber Heard (03:09)

You've done this several times. And getting another room in a hotel's just the same thing.

 

Johnny Depp (03:19)

When did I get another room in a hotel?

 

Amber Heard (03:21)

You texted Steven or Nathan and in Toronto to get you another room. It's chronic. It happens all the time. And if you do it to go into another room, you do it and you get dressed.

 

Johnny Depp (03:31)

You were f**king screaming at me.

 

Amber Heard (03:35)

I'm not going to validate my actions last night. I feel very bad.

 

Johnny Depp (03:39)

No, I'm talking in Toronto.

 

Amber Heard (03:42)

I did not start screaming until you had f**king said all the sh*t. You poke an animal enough it is eventually, doesn't matter how friendly it is, how cool. I stay cool for so long.

 

Johnny Depp (03:50)

That's not true. Well, it's the same for me.

 

Amber Heard (03:54)

And you kicked and kicked and kicked. So that I have I have not done this to you. I have not said these things to you. I have not started to fight by saying I'm going to get another room. And I'm not going to sit here and fight about f**king Toronto anymore! Guess what! I let it go! I'm not f**king talking about Toronto!

 

Johnny Depp (04:11)

Send me the tapes.

 

Amber Heard (04:12)

I can whisper it. I can write it. Guess what? I'm not saying another f**king word about Toronto. I'm so sick and tired of  f**king fighting about old fights. This is not about a fight. This is broad. This is a broad thing. And if I'm telling you, every single time you get dressed and you f**king split at the top of a fight. You never f**king try and work it out. Never fight for me. You never come to me. You never self calm. You never self sooth. You are never the one to throw the olive branch.

I'm sick and tired of it. It needs to f**king change. And you can go, "I can't meet those demands," "I can't do it," or you can f**king promise me so I have a modicum of safety, I feel a modicum of respect, a little tiny sh*ttin' sliver of f**king like you are in this whether it is good or bad, whether it is good or bad, down and up, lows and highs, tough and easy. Not just when it's easy. I feel like you're a f**king vacation husband. You were so there when it's good, you're so there when it's easy.

The second it gets hard, you question it. Last night. I am just as guilty, I give you that, but I have been primed and conditioned at this point. I thought I never get over Toronto. It hurt so bad. I got f**ked over so bad and I did not do anything like that. I didn't stoup that level at all.

 

Johnny Depp (05:27)

You've got the tapes. Let me hear them.

 

Amber Heard (05:31)

Absolutely. I wish it had caught everything too.

 

Johnny Depp (05:36)

Why don't you send me the f**king recordings?

 

Amber Heard (05:39)

I will.

 

Johnny Depp (05:39)

Just text them to me.

 

Amber Heard (05:41)

I don't know how else to say I will to you. Hasn't really been a kind of safe environment now, has it? So if I'm looking to stoke a fire, yeah, okay. I haven't because we have not been well, we have not been good. When I f**king move out, if I move out, then you'll have them and you can f**king relish them. You won't f**king like it, what you hear, won't make you happy. But you'll hear what I'm telling you. We haven't really been good. It hasn't really been a safe environment now, has it? You act like you're f**king on something when I haven't sent you this, like, "Well, send them to me." Get this. It hasn't been good. It's been a little tough.

 

Johnny Depp (06:35)

Well. It wasn't before Rio.

 

Amber Heard (06:36)

Wasn't tough?

 

Johnny Depp (06:37)

I mean, only in the sense that you tried to keep me, you know.

 

Amber Heard (06:41)

It's been really tough.

 

Johnny Depp (06:42)

Why did you come to Rio?

 

Amber Heard (06:44)

All I've been trying to do is be with you. Spend time with you. You said you needed that. You said that it made a difference, that I wasn't working, you wanted me to travel with you.

 

Johnny Depp (06:52)

That was the time you're looking for apartments?

 

Amber Heard (06:54)

That was after Toronto.

 

Johnny Depp (06:56)

Yeah. That's when we came back here. Toronto, Boston, here.

 

Amber Heard (07:00)

I know where we were. We've been on the road, basically, since Australia and I have been at your side, and I have not been [unintelligible].

 

Johnny Depp (07:06)

Well, we were on our honeymoon. I hope you were my side.

 

Amber Heard (07:08)

I'm not talking about just a honeymoon. Now am I? I'm talking about many months. And was it all the honeymoon? No. I have been at your side throughout it all you said, "Why did you come to Rio?" And I answered you. I would love for it to be better. I have no f**king consistency, no safety, no security. The relationship is something, me, is something you don't fight for. You don't stand up for. You always run from when it's tough. I'm telling you, I need more. I need -- we didn't say vows. You didn't make them exactly in that way.

But now it's a f**king time. I need to know if you're going to be there. I want promises. I told you that at the beginning of this conversation, I need promises you're going to f**king be there. I need promises that this is important to you. Not when it's easy. When it's hard, too. If this is something you'll fight for. That this is something that's sacred that neither of us throw out at every fight. I can't be the only one that hold the promises. I was in Toronto and it f**ked me over. I can't be the only one. You can't be the only one. If I split on you all those times that I thought about doing, it would not be here. And I stayed. And it's tougher. You know that's stronger. I'm stronger. It is easy to run. It is easy to run away from problems. It is easy to take that out and say, "Well, that's the easiest, I mean, that's the safest way out". I'm not saying we should get in physical altercations. I never want to be in that. Never. But every time you don't like what I say, and you f**king run away, we never work out anything. You can't run away every fight. You can't. It's easy. It's not brave. It's not strong. It's harder to say to somebody, "I want to work this out," "I want to face what I have," "I want to face what you have," "I want to work it out with you." You're not working it out. You're running away. And then, you make me be the bigger person every single time, and come to you and knock on the door, and come to this house, and say, "Hey, we're married. It's supposed to be sacred. Come down. Calm down."

 

Johnny Depp (09:22)

I made you?

 

Amber Heard (09:23)

Yes. By default. If you're never the one to do it. One of us is. And I'm the one to do it every time. It means I'm the bigger person every time. It means I have to be the stronger one. It means every time, I have to fight for our relationship and you get to be not. You get to be lazy. You get to be cowardly. I don't know what it is.

 

Johnny Depp (09:37)

Then what are you here for? What do you need me for?

 

Amber Heard (09:38)

Once again I am fighting for the relationship. I want

 

Johnny Depp (09:39)

With a guy that you don't f**king trust or like? Why?

 

Amber Heard (09:44)

I did not say I do not like you. I love you. You're my favorite person in the world.

 

Johnny Depp (09:48)

I don't see how I could be.

 

Amber Heard (09:49)

Remember what I said at the beginning. I'm sorry. You feel like you can't imagine it. But I said this to you at the beginning of this conversation. I said you're my favorite person in the whole world. If you weren't the most magnetic, shiny, beautiful, interesting, dynamic person I had ever met in my life, it would be so easy to walk away from this bratty thing that you do.

 

Johnny Depp (10:08)

Untrustworthy, um um

 

Amber Heard (10:12)

Did you hear what I just said?

I said, I can't trust. I can't trust. That's not meaning you are untrustworthy. It means we've created a situation. And I'm telling you what you do to create it, too. We've created a situation in which trust can't grow. It's like it's trampled every single time. And we need a marriage. That's why I sat down. Do not remember me sitting down at the very beginning of this conversation and saying just that to you? Say, I know you got married for security and for safety. So did I. We did not get married because it was something that we're doing, because it was something we'd walk away. We wanted to stack a foundation. No?

 

Johnny Depp (10:47)

Yes. I wanted to make you my wife. I love you.

 

Amber Heard (10:49)

Yes. Yes. But you could just have me as your girlfriend if you didn't want the foundation. And you told me. And maybe you go back on it now. Fine. Okay. Cool. Lie about that. I don't know. You told me you wanted a foundation. You told me you wanted the security. You wanted the safety. You liked the foundation at the beginning, you said I really like having that. It feels safe. So don't argue with me when I say it now.

 

Johnny Depp (11:09)

I'm not arguing with you.

 

Amber Heard (11:10)

Oh, yeah. [sarcastically] But you had to pick it apart.

 

Johnny Depp (11:15)

By saying, because I loved you and you're my wife. I wanted you to be my wife? That's picking it apart?

 

Amber Heard (11:20)

No.

 

Johnny Depp (11:21)

How did I pick it apart?

 

Amber Heard (11:23)

I don't want to do this. I don't want to fight about a fight. I don't want to fight about semantics.

 

Johnny Depp (11:29)

How come when I come up with a point, you can't answer it, suddenly you don't want to answer it?

 

Amber Heard (11:34)

What am I not answering? Because I don't want to fight about this new thing. No, I don't want to. I said you wanted the safety and security. And you stopped me. You interrupted me. And then you said, what? You said,  "No, because I wanted to have you as

 

Johnny Depp (11:49)

I didn't interrupt, you asked me, right? You said, right?

 

Amber Heard (11:53)

I meant you interjected. I meant you said, you said. How about that? See now is this better? I answered you. I addressed what you're saying. Can we please not fight about that?

 

Johnny Depp (12:01)

I said, "because I love you."

 

Amber Heard (12:05)

You said "loved."

 

Johnny Depp (12:11)

We're talking about a f**king, about a past tense. If I used "loved," my apologies, it doesn't mean I don't love you now.

 

Amber Heard (12:20)

My whole point, I don't know, an issue with is, that you love me, yes, you married me though, because you wanted some safety, some security, some stability, a foundation. Now, if you take issue with that, okay, take issue with it. But if you agree, then you agree that's who you were when you married me.

 

Johnny Depp (12:44)

Yes, but the only thing that's missing is with you. I wanted those things with you. And that's what I was trying to say.

 

Amber Heard (12:52)

Me too.

 

Johnny Depp (12:53)

Because I love you. And I wanted to marry you. For that. For our love. For the security. For the foundation. Yes, of course. But you left "for you."

 

Amber Heard (13:12)

I'm sorry. I mean with you of course.

 

Johnny Depp (13:13)

Or with you.

 

Amber Heard (13:25)

I mean that, of course. Of course, I do. Of course, I want that with you. That's why I married you. But I need the safety. I need the security. I need the boundaries. And I think you. Could you not agree?

 

Johnny Depp (13:32)

I need the same things. But when you start flipping out, and I can't get a word in, and it's manic and angry, what the f**k Amber?

 

Amber Heard (13:45)

I get angry. I'm human. This is the kind of situation where one gets angry.

 

Johnny Depp (13:51)
But you can't provoke anger in me then.

     

    Amber Heard (13:56)

    I can't control that. If I'm angry.

     

    Johnny Depp (13:58)

    But just try. Let's both try. If there's anger. If there's something really f**king poking us in the a*s, let's try. Try not to f**king fight. Try to address it without jumping down each other's throats. Because all that's going to do is build a mountain of f**king resentment, some species of f**king hatred within the love, and totally f**king mistrust. Because you say you don't trust me, you don't trust me. I get it. Okay. I'm a flake. I'm a this. I'm a that.

     

    Amber Heard (14:46)

    I didn't say as a person. I'm speaking specifically about I don't trust the marriage. I don't trust you. I don't feel safe with it because you always f**king bail on it. I want the trust back. You can deflect all you want. Say it's my fault. Say, how dare I get angry at you ever. Whatever. I'm telling you.

     

    Johnny Depp (15:12)

    I'm telling you, as much as you don't like that sh*t in your marriage, I don't like the guff that you put on me in our marriage. And, if it causes distrust in me, it causes distrust in me. Sometimes I don't. I don't want to f**king be there and go through the sh*t. I don't, man. I don't. Because I don't want to f**king fight.

     

    Amber Heard (15:48)

    But it doesn't have to be one. It's not like I'm saying, hey, choose fight.

     

    Johnny Depp (15:55)

    You just said "I get mad. I'm going to scream."

     

    Amber Heard (15:57)

    No, I didn't say that's always the case. I said "Yeah, I'm mad. It happens." It happens.

     

    Johnny Depp (16:06)

    Yes, I know. It happens often.

     

    Amber Heard (16:12)

    The things that are wrong are repeating themselves, and they happen often. If you think I'm some f**king tyrant or bully, then don't f**king be with me. But don't sit here and insult me like I'm the f**k up because of I have the audacity

     

    Johnny Depp (16:27)

    You are the one saying that I'm the tyrant and the bully, and at the same time the guy that runs away.

     

    Amber Heard (16:33)

    You run away every single fight.

     

    Johnny Depp (16:39)

    Okay. And what are you doing with me?

     

    Amber Heard (16:45)

    I already answered that. I already. We went through this conversation literally five minutes ago. I answered this already five minutes ago.

     

    Johnny Depp (16:51)

    You just said to me that I shouldn't be with you.

     

    Amber Heard (16:54)

    No, I said if you

     

    Johnny Depp (16:55)

    if that's what I feel.

     

    Amber Heard (16:55)

    No, I said if I'm some harping bully, which is what you make me sound like, that I'm constantly on you making you feel bad, because that's what I do. And then you ignore everything. You take me for granted. You're ignoring everything that I do for you. You make me sound terrible. You talk about me in a terrible way. You do not fight for me, and then you want to sit here and make me sound so terrible to be around.

     

    Johnny Depp (17:23)

    What do you mean, "I don't fight for you?"

     

    Amber Heard (17:24)

    Everything I've already explained.

     

    Johnny Depp (17:28)

    No, "fight for you," I don't understand.

     

    Amber Heard (17:29)

    You never, ever, do the work put in the work. If we're arguing about something, you don't ever try to get to the bottom of it, and figure out, make the peace. You want to make it easy on you. So you split. You don't fight for me. You don't fight when there's a problem. You don't come to me. You don't make peace with me. You never extend an olive branch. You're never the bigger guy. You're never the one that's like, okay, I'm going to put my own feelings aside for a second and say this is bigger than us, let's stop fighting. You never are the one to come and knock on my door. You take me for granted.

     

    Johnny Depp (18:06)

    It's not true. It's not true. I'm not the one who f**king throws f**king pots, and

     

    Amber Heard (18:12)

    That's different.

     

    Johnny Depp (18:13)

    and whatever the f**king everything else at me.

     

    Amber Heard (18:14)

    That's different. That's. One does not negate the other. That's irrelevant. It's a complete non sequitur. Just because I've thrown pots and pans does not mean that you come and knock on the door. Just because they're [unintelligible] does not mean that you come and knock on the door.

     

    Johnny Depp (18:28)

    Really, I should just let you throw?

     

    Amber Heard (18:30)

    I'm not saying that. You're saying that. You're putting words in my mouth and then making non sequiturs.

     

    Johnny Depp (18:35)

    No. I'm giving you a situation.

     

    Amber Heard (18:36)

    No, you're trying to justify how you don't, or do, come to the door based on whether I throw pots and pans. It's irrelevant.

     

    Johnny Depp (18:43)

    No. I'm justifying how you seem to think that there's this cowardice in me that runs away and I don't fight for you.

     

    Amber Heard (18:51)

    And you're justifying that by saying I throw pots and pans. Okay, cool. Let's talk about everything you do wrong.

     

    Johnny Depp (18:56)

    I'm not the one who f**king did that.

     

    Amber Heard (18:59)

    So that makes sense. That's clear. Yeah. [sarcasm]

     

    Johnny Depp (19:03)

    The only time I ever threw anything at you is when you f**king threw the cans at me in Australia.

     

    Amber Heard (19:09)

    Why are you trying to justify who throws things based on whether or not you come knocking on the door?

     

    Johnny Depp (19:16)

    Because that is a f**king irrational and violent f**king maneuver. So a man would want to get out of that area so that he doesn't get so f**king angry that he actually does pop the f**king wife.

     

    Amber Heard (19:30)

    How does one inform the other?

     

    Johnny Depp (19:32)

    Oh, man. Go home and listen to the tape. Please. That's what they're for.

     

    Amber Heard (19:41)

    Yes. You listen to the f**king tape.

     

    Johnny Depp (19:44)

    Oh, I'm gonna.

     

    Amber Heard (19:45)

    So will I.

     

    [Extended silence.]

     

    Amber Heard (20:15)

    I'm not going to sit here and promise you I'll never get mad at you and . . . never f**k up. I know you want to live in a land, in a world, where everyone just says yes to you and doesn't question you or criticize you ever.

     

    Johnny Depp (20:35)

    Don't insult me like that, please.

     

    Amber Heard (20:38)

    But, that's not the case. It's not why you're with me. I am honest with you. I'm sorry. You don't want to be held accountable. I get it.

     

    Johnny Depp (20:50)

    I'm not sure you're so honest with me.  Watching you lie in front of Travis last night.

     

    Who is Travis?

     

    Travis McGivern is one of Johnny's security guards.

    Feb 2020, Travis submitted a declaration about a March 23, 2015 incident. Travis testified that contrary to Amber and her sister Whitney's accusations that Johnny had been physically violent with Amber on that date, Travis witnessed the opposite. Amber was throwing large heavy items at Johnny and Travis needed to step in front of Johnny to protect him.

    Note that this audio recording of Johnny and Amber is from Sept 2015.

     

    Amber Heard (20:57)

    That's your problem. And that's your whole thing that you created.

     

    Johnny Depp (21:01)

    That's my problem, but my problem is that you don't trust me?

     

    Amber Heard (21:04)

    No. I don't trust you in this.

     

    Johnny Depp (21:05)

    What the f**k is going on in there, man?

     

    Amber Heard (21:07)

    I trust you in this. I want the trust back.

     

    Johnny Depp (21:11)

    You don't trust me in our marriage. Well, what is everything we're talking about? Our marriage.

     

    Amber Heard (21:17)

    Tell me if you want to stop talking.

     

    Johnny Depp (21:19)

    You're saying you don't trust me personally or you don't trust me in the marriage. I don't understand. Which is what's so different. Tell me the difference, please.

     

    Amber Heard (21:28)

    I think I have in the last few hours though.

     

    Johnny Depp (21:31)

    No. I think you could probably explain it to me a little better. I'm slow.

     

    Amber Heard (21:35)

    Do you want to keep being an as*hole?

     

    Johnny Depp (21:40)

    Do I want to keep being an as*hole?

     

    Amber Heard (21:42)

    Stop the attitude.

     

    Johnny Depp (21:47)

    I should stop the attitude, OK. Sure. No problem.

     

    Amber Heard (21:49)

    Stop.

     

    Johnny Depp (21:50)

    No problem.

     

    [Extended silence]

     

    Amber Heard (22:10)

    I'm not going to sit here and go over every fight we've had. I'm not going to refight this fight. You have something you're holding on to about Travis. f**king go, f**king go, f**k. Go do it. Go run away together. I don't know what you're f**king holding on to, but you have created that. I have no part of that. I don't know what you're f**king latched on to in your brain. What stray hairs have f**king commingled entangled in your brain to make you think you've really figured some sort of thing out. But this is not unusual for you. It's like almost every fight. I can pretty much guarantee you find something that you can, like 

     

    Johnny Depp (22:46)

    Let's ask Travis tonight.

     

    Amber Heard (22:48)

    Why don't we invite Travis into our f**ked up, broken a*s, three f**king wheeled truck of a marriage? Why don't we crash it straight into the wall? Because no one knows us better than f**king Travis.

     

    Johnny Depp (23:02)

    You're just afraid that the truth will come out.

     

    Amber Heard (23:04)

    What truth?

     

    Johnny Depp (23:06)

    That you lied.

     

    Amber Heard (23:07)

    What are you f**king talking about? I didn't f**king even have a f**king thing to lie about. What are you f**king talking about? Every f**king fight. There's a new thing that you've convinced yourself is a lie.

     

    Johnny Depp (23:17)

    No. I said to you, "Amber, tell Travis what you just did."

     

    Amber Heard (23:21)

    [Laughs.]

     

    Johnny Depp (23:21)

    "Did you just f**king, did you just punch me in the f**king jaw? Did you f**king hit? Did you? Did you?" And you wouldn't say f**king thing? You said, "I don't know what you're f**king talking about. Never f**king, never f**king happened."

     

    Amber Heard (23:30)

    I see the lie. [Sarcasm] You really should run with this. In fact, maybe you and Travis can go and like, go and like, you know, go and do a tell all about what a, do an investigative study.

     

    Johnny Depp (23:38)

    Stop with the attitude, right? Stop with the attitude. You're getting all bunched up.

     

    Amber Heard (24:02)

    Sorry. Sorry.

     

    [Extended silence.]

     

    Amber Heard (24:02)

    It's so f**king pointless. I don't want to sit here and f**king fight about whatever you think happened with Travis. It wasn't a conversation. 

     

    Johnny Depp (24:07)

    Listen. I was not high. You lied your a*s off.

     

    Amber Heard (24:08)

    You're f**king full of sh*t. What lie? When? Hmm. What conversation did I have with Travis? Big investigative study you've done. [Sarcasm] I'm not sitting here and fighting with you about the

     

    Johnny Depp (24:18)

    I was in a situation with you

     

    Amber Heard  (24:18)

    the fight that we had last night.

     

    Johnny Depp (24:21)

    After you got physically violent with me, I texted Travis. I said come up here because

     

    Amber Heard (24:25)

    I know come and save.

     

    Johnny Depp (24:25)

    because I didn't want anything to happen.

     

    Amber Heard (24:29)

    I mean, yeah.

     

    Johnny Depp (24:29)

    Come and what? Save me?

     

    Amber Heard (24:29)

    No. Go ahead. Continue. Travis to the rescue. [Sarcasm]

     

    Johnny Depp (24:33)

    No. That was the last one. You can go. That was the last insult.

     

    Amber Heard (24:43)

    You called me a liar and yet

     

    Johnny Depp (24:48)

    I watched you lie.

     

    Amber Heard (24:49)

    You called me a liar.

     

    Johnny Depp (24:49)

    I watched you lie I heard it. I was right there.

     

    Amber Heard (24:51)

    There's no. What? You still haven't told me what lie it is.

     

    Johnny Depp (24:53)

    We'll talk to

     

    Amber Heard (24:53)

    But yet every single f**king time.

     

    Johnny Depp (24:55)

    We'll talk to Travis.

     

    Amber Heard (24:56)

    You know you do this every single f**king time.

     

    Johnny Depp (24:57)

    We'll talk to Travis.

     

    Amber Heard (24:57)

    I'm not f**king talking to nobody. F**k that. You go f**king go jerk him off. I don't care. I really couldn't care less. It's you every single time you latch onto some sort of thing. When I already told you, I don't know what you're f**king talking about. You don't even know what you're talking about. You still haven't even told me what it is, but run with it.

     

    Johnny Depp (25:14)

    I have told you what it is.

     

    Amber Heard (25:15)

    No, you haven't.

     

    Johnny Depp (25:18)

     I said to Travis. No, I said to you, "Hey, tell Travis what just happened."

     

    Amber Heard (25:23)

    You told me to do it. You told me to. You said, "Go do that."

     

    Johnny Depp (25:25)

    I said, "No, tell him what just happened."

     

    Amber Heard (25:27)

    Then I lied. [Sarcasm]

     

    Johnny Depp (25:27)

    and that you punched me

     

    Amber Heard (25:28)

    You're right. [Sarcasm]

     

    Johnny Depp (25:28)

     in the f**king thing and you in the face and you said.

     

    Amber Heard (25:31)

    You figured it all out. [Sarcasm]

     

    Johnny Depp (25:32)

    No, I didn't. What the f**k are you talking about? And I watched you lie.

     

    Amber Heard (25:36)

    I didn't punch you. I didn't punch you. By the way. I'm sorry that I didn't

     

    Johnny Depp (25:40)

    You punched me.

     

    Amber Heard (25:40)

    hit you across the face in a proper slap. But I was hitting you. It was not punching you. Babe, you're not punched.

     

    Johnny Depp (25:47)

    Don't tell me what it feels like to be punched.

     

    Amber Heard (25:50)

    I know you've been in a lot of fights. You've been around a long time. I know. [Sarcasm]

     

    Johnny Depp (25:54)

    No. When you f**king have a closed fist.

     

    Amber Heard (25:56)

    You didn't get punched. You got hit. I'm sorry I didn't hit you like this. But I did not punch you. I did not f**king deck you. I f**king was hitting you. I don't know what the motion of my actual hand was, but you're fine. I did not hurt you. I did not punch you. I was hitting you.

     

    Johnny Depp (26:12)

    How are your toes?

     

    Amber Heard (26:13)

    What am I supposed to do? Do this?

     

    Johnny Depp (26:15)

    How are you toes?

     

    Amber Heard (26:15)

    I'm not b*tching about it, am I? You are. That's the difference between me and you? You're a f**king baby.

     

    Johnny Depp (26:21)

    Because you start physical fights?

     

    Amber Heard (26:23)

    You are such a baby! Grow the f**k up!

     

    Johnny Depp (26:24)

    Because you start physical fights?

     

    Amber Heard (26:27)

    I did start a physical fight.

     

    Johnny Depp (26:28)

    Yeah, you did. So I had to get f**k out of there.

     

    Amber Heard (26:30)

    Yes, you did. So you did the right thing. The big thing. You know what, you are admirable. Every single time what happens, what happens, what's your excuse? When there's not a physical fight, then what's your excuse there? You're still being admirable, right? just by running away? And you can sit here and call me names, but you get called a name and what do you do? "That's the last insult." You're a baby. You are a hypocrite. You don't that you do anything that you actually do. You expect from people what you can't give them. If they do something, a taste of it to you, you f**king lose it. But yet you dish it out.

     

    Johnny Depp (27:29)

    What are you doing with this?

     

    Amber Heard (28:56)

    I'm giving you your Xanax, in case you need it.

     

    Johnny Depp (28:56)

    Well, thank you.

     

    Amber Heard (28:56)

    Seems like it's worn off.

     

    Johnny Depp (28:56)

    Yeah. It probably has.

     

    Amber Heard (28:56)

    I love you and I've told you so many times in this conversation how much I love you. I do love you, and I've fought for this marriage and fought for you, and you don't do the same. . . I got married to you . . . have a foundation . . . But I haven't even been able to have, like, a fight with you beyond, in any real talking kind of speaking context in so long because any time anything goes wrong, you split. I feel like it's your first thing. And it's unnecessary. It's not always you're splitting because there's blows or because there's yelling or anything. You split many, most times when I'm still speaking in this volume, and nothing has been thrown or hit or anything.

     

    Amber Heard (29:44)

    I'm telling you what I need is -- I want to feel the trust. And I can with you. I know I can. I have felt it with you, but it's been destroyed by constantly being reminded that you take me for granted or that you don't see this as a permanent thing for better or for worse. I feel genuinely that you are here in this marriage for better. Not for worse. You can't say the same about me. I fight even when I feel terrible. I show up. I pursue. I give you space. I've done everything to really show how committed I am. You know I am.  I'm here, for God's sake.

     

    Johnny Depp (30:26)

    And I haven't been?

     

    Amber Heard (30:27)

    No, not when it's tough, not when it's hard, not when it's worse. This is the grandest gesture you showed me in a long time, is by sitting in one place and actually facing some of the stuff we need to talk about. This is the biggest gesture you've given me in a very long time. It means a lot, of course, but . . . I know there are things that I need to do different. I want to make you happy. You know I can change certain things that are hurting you, but I know I can't blame myself entirely for going straight to the f**king finish line at the first sign of stress yesterday, because of how it's been lately, since Australia, and I have been on the road with you. I haven't been working. I don't know what else I could f**king do.

     

    Johnny Depp (31:28)

    Since Australia? We've gone on a honeymoon. We had a great time, other than the fact that we had a fight in the train, which was physical. Then we had a fight in San Francisco. But I thought everything else was great. But you're saying that there's a laundry list since Australia.

     

    Amber Heard (31:48)

    No, the splitting.

     

    Johnny Depp (31:49)

    Me splitting?

     

    Amber Heard (31:50)

    The lack of, I even said this . . . We were so good for so long, we would talk about things. Remember, we were allowed to have fights then. Remember, we allowed ourselves to say, "Hey, you did this." Remember? We would even have a little argument, and it was okay. It was an argument. I don't know what the f**k has changed. I can't figure it out. And I don't mean to criticize anything that you do, but it's so chronic with you, the changes in personality. It's like sometimes you get these clear months and you're this different person, and it's wonderful. You're this. You're this. And and then sometimes I'm like struggling to stay connected with you, struggling to have five minutes with you, struggling to connect with you, struggling to have my friendship with you. And I can't fight with you. But they're so chronic that I have to go, what the f**k has changed? What thing has changed? Do you not remember how different? You were so different. You allowed me . . .

     

    Johnny Depp (33:14)

    I allowed you to what?

     

    Amber Heard (33:14)

    You were so present. And we were allowed me to fight. Not even fight, we had arguments. You weren't like this mood swings up, down, like, really aggressive and really cool and calm. You've given me this time here on the couch, and it's amazing that we can actually talk. But I never feel that safe. I constantly feel like you're about to f**king split. And I don't want to feel like that. You made me feel meaningless.

     

    Johnny Depp (33:37)

    You threw me out of the bed room.

     

    Amber Heard (33:40)

    Why wouldn't I if I know that you're about to split? That's what I'm saying.

     

    Johnny Depp (33:43)

    I wasn't about to split.

     

    Amber Heard (33:45)

    You always split. So that's, why wouldn't I? I do blame myself for my actions yesterday, but I also don't think

     

    Johnny Depp (33:49)

    I was laying in bed watching television, man. I was laying in bed watching television.

     

    Amber Heard (34:10)

    I f**ked up last night. I'm not going to defend myself, but I also can't blame me going to the finish line. . .

     

    Johnny Depp (34:10)

    But you are saying you thought, you were sure, I was going to split.

     

    Amber Heard (34:10)

    Always. I mean that's

     

    Johnny Depp (34:12)

    Why would I split if I'm laying in the bed with you watching television?

     

    Amber Heard (34:15)

    Anytime I tell you that I'm unhappy with anything and it's typically the same thing. Anytime I voice a point. I'm not allowed to have a complaint. I'm not allowed to say anything . . .. So we do this 1000 times. 1000 times I've said this to you, in calm and in fights. Baby, I don't feel like I'm allowed to just to have a point. And you aren't allowing me the luxury of us just being a normal human couple. As soon as you get mad, you take off on the train.

    Remember I even asked you. Is it about Adderall? Are you doing too much? I know it makes one edgy. It makes one like temperamental. Could it be too much? Is it the alcohol? It doesn't seem like it unless it's like in Toronto where it just became that. But in general, it hasn't been a problem so much. So I don't know what changed. I'm sure something because it's wrong. One day you were different and it hasn't been back.

     

    Johnny Depp (35:09)

    It's the same changes that are happening in you. It's exactly the same.

     

    Amber Heard (35:21)

    . . . I have always allowed you to be a human. I've always been able to have a communication with you. The difference is you make it so we cannot even communicate at all if it's anything negative. You go. You take off on a train. You don't get off. You don't calm down. You don't come back around. You don't honor when you say, I just want a few minutes or I want a little time, but I'll be back. You don't assuage the anxiety and stress that that gives me and makes things worse with me by saying, hey, remember, people were like, you have to say, I will be back in this amount of time, more or less, and then actually honor it. You have to come back. So I said, oh, my God. He could do that. That would be great. And you never do it. You don't ever honor that. You leave me with way more anxiety, stress, anger, and resentment. But in Australia, for a few months, you were so.

     

    Johnny Depp (36:22)

    So were you. It makes a difference. I wasn't being attacked.

     

    Amber Heard (36:27)

    I have not attacked you any different. I haven't changed. I have not attacked you any different. I never attacked you. I never attacked you. Just because I have a complaint with something you did is not an attack Baby.

     

    Johnny Depp (36:38)

    It becomes verbally insulting. It becomes all kinds of sh*t. It becomes, like, right at the get go.

     

    Amber Heard (36:47)

    That's the problem. If you see any criticism as a verbal assault, of course we have this problem. We're going to have it next time you do. God forbid I have a problem with something you do. We're going to be in this situation. Are you ready for it?

     

    Johnny Depp (37:00)

    Say it nice. Say it nice man.

     

    Amber Heard (37:01)

    What if I'm hurt? Am I not allowed to be hurt and be human? That's the thing. You're not allowing me to be human then. You take my humanity from me.

     

    Johnny Depp (37:07)

    You're talking about

     

    Amber Heard (37:08)

    You're telling me I'm not allowed to feel and I'm not allowed to react because it's to protect you.

     

    Johnny Depp (37:13)

    Last night happened because I was at Isaacs for too long, next door. And for what? What did we gain from this fight? From me, just the horrible f**king act of me being over at Isaac's for just too long for you.

     

    Amber Heard (37:32)

    I did not cause this because you were at Issacs's. I mean, you lie to yourself. Go ahead. You're just lying.

     

    Johnny Depp (37:39)

    Then why were you upset last night?

     

    Amber Heard (37:41)

    This did not happen because of Isaac's. This happened because we're fighting. This is not about Isaac's. We actually haven't really even talked about that. We spent 2 seconds on it because, you know it's not about that. You know, it's bigger than that. The point is, I voice a complaint. It could be anything. I could say, "Baby, you did something to hurt me," which you did. And you admitted.

     

    Johnny Depp (38:04)

    Why didn't you say that?

     

    Amber Heard (38:05)

    You admitted that you would feel that way too. And you said sorry for it. That would have been great, but I could not feel safe saying that to you because I knew your reaction would very likely be a defensive explosion and an attack and freak out and get up and walk away and all this stuff. So I wanted to avoid it. So I took an Ambien to try and go to sleep without even having to speak to you about it because I was really hurt. You f**king left me stranded and you didn't think about me. You didn't text me. All the things that you apologized for. You already apologized for it. Can you do me at one small favor and not take it back?

     

    Johnny Depp (38:49)

    (Sigh) I'm not taking it back.

     

    Amber Heard (38:55)

    You already apologized for it. It meant a lot to me. Do me one favor today. Don't take that back.

     

    Johnny Depp (39:05)

    What did I just say?

     

    Amber Heard (39:06)

    . . . [unintelligible] It's about you not allowing me to have any problems with you, or be upset at you, or mad at you, or even hurt by you at all. You do not allow it.

     

    Johnny Depp (39:34)

    If you could have just said it in a kinder way, a nicer way. Like, "Listen, I feel f**ked over by what you f**king just did."

     

    Amber Heard (39:42)

    You wouldn't freak out?

     

    Johnny Depp (39:43)

    No, I would say f**king, "What is it? Like, what f**king too long at Isaac's." "You said you wouldn't be that long or whatever. You shouldn't." "I feel stranded. I felt f**king left." I'm not going to fight with that. Why would I get mad at that?

     

    Amber Heard (40:00)

    My God. The first thing you do is, "I don't have to text you." It would be sh*tty. It would be a fight. It would be terrible.

     

    Johnny Depp (40:07)

    It was a fight.

     

    Amber Heard (40:09)

    Yeah, it was.

     

    Johnny Depp (40:11)

    Is was a fight, and it shouldn't have been. The Isaac thing was the impetus because that was a lot of what you said today.

     

    Amber Heard (40:25)

    It was the impetus, but it's just a small example.

     

    Johnny Depp (40:29)

    Okay. So it's bigger thing. It's coming from back in Australia.

     

    Amber Heard (40:43)

    It's like in Australia we were allowed to fight. You can't sit here and tell me I can't feel things, I can't voice them to you. If we say to each other you can't get mad. You can't . . . Then we're living in a f**king motherf**king fairytale.

     

    Johnny Depp (40:51)

    Look, of course, nobody is able to, and shouldn't, hold sh*t in. We can go to the other person, say, "Look, man, I feel f**ked. I feel sh*t. I feel this. I feel that." And then we can assess how you feel. "Well, f**k, I guess. Oh, sh*t. I see what you mean. I see what you mean. I get it." Or, "F**kin' I don't understand what you're saying and you're wrong and you're this" whatever.

     

    Amber Heard (41:31)

    But it's going to be the latter. And it's been the latter for months now. Where that's your reaction. It's not ever ever admitting wrong. Ever doing anything wrong. Ever admitting. You always go straight to, "You're wrong. F**k you" kind of thing. You don't say f**k you all the time right away, but I'm saying

     

    Johnny Depp (41:52)

    You're saying always.

     

    Amber Heard (41:54)

    Like, for months now it's been. I can't voice any complaint. I can't say I'm so f**ked over. I can't say I'm hurt. I can't see you f**ked up. I can't get mad at you. I can't be hurt. Nothing, because I'm the bad guy. Oh, well, I'm always f**king up. And you're always on me. And I'm always f**king up and getting mad at me for having. For being honest with you. We've had a million fights where like I'm like I was honest with you. I told you I felt. Maybe if you were me, wouldn't you feel bad?

    Yeah. Okay. When then, what the f**k! We had these few months where we actually could even feel things and fight. And it was an argument. But you don't ever like, I don't know what's changed, but it's like you can't ever just make it short and get over it. You can't. It's like you get on something and you will not get off of it. Hence why I'm always going to you in fights for hours, trying to get you to calm down. Please talk, please. Because I don't want to go to bed that way.

    And you told me you didn't want to go to bed that way either. Yet you want to f**king do this all night long and make it an all night thing by disappearing for hours at a time. And then when I come to you, I'm the bad guy. I'm f**king alone. I feel like you're not f**king helping. You're not f**king doing anything in fights. You're not overcoming yourself. You're not overcoming yourself. Every one of these fights could have been so short. Why aren't you doing some of the work?

    Why aren't you coming to me and saying, look, olive branch. Why aren't you saying I'm sorry? Bigger picture. Let's look at a bigger picture. Why aren't you doing any of this stuff? Have you noticed that you're not?

     

    Johnny Depp (43:33)

    Do you remember thanking me for doing that? Actually, recently. "Thank you for being the bigger person. Thank you for coming and apologizing to me."

     

    Amber Heard (43:55)

    I don't know. I'm sorry when?

     

    Johnny Depp (43:56)

    I don't know: honeymoon or Venice?

     

    Amber Heard (44:01)

    I don't remember which one it is.

     

    Johnny Depp (44:03)

    I'm really sorry. I don't remember exactly.

     

    Amber Heard (44:05)

    No, I wasn't questioning you. I just don't remember that one time, but I'm saying the majority of the time. And if you want to argue with that, then we'll never say eye to eye. I think you and I both know the truth. The majority of times you cannot calm yourself and it's me trying. Whether I'm hurt, whether I'm mad, whether you just told me you hate me in my eyes. I'm the one trying to get you calm down, trying to get an olive branch, trying to not make it an all night thing, trying to get over it, trying to see the bigger picture, even if I'm hurt, I'm still trying to do it because I see the bigger picture. You lose the bigger picture every time. And if you want to stay married to me, you need to figure out if you think you can. If you're going to lose sight of the bigger picture and only be my husband when it's easy, you're only going to be there for the ups, never the down. You're only going to be there for health, not sickness. Every time it gets hard, you lose the big picture and you can't think about anything else but breaking up, divorce, fighting, splitting, running away.

     

    Amber Heard (45:06)

    If you can't be the one to come around sometimes and see the bigger picture and know that it's not worth fighting for days. If you can't do that, too, we need to walk away. I don't want to walk away. I don't want to end this.

     

    Johnny Depp (45:19)

    But do you not think you instigate the same thing?

     

    Amber Heard (45:22)

    I'm not talking about instigating. I'm talking about ending. I'm talking about ending.

     

    Johnny Depp (45:26)

    Yeah, but you don't always do that. What you do is in the morning. You say I'm sorry.

     

    Amber Heard (45:35)

    No, I do it at night. I do it at night, whether it's night or day, I've done both. I've come to you every single time. On the plane, I came to you. In Venice, I came to you. In Toronto, I came to you. In what do you call it? San Francisco, I came back to you. I pull you into the bed or I hug you, and I get us to calm down. And I'm glad I do, because that's what makes it not be an all night thing.

    And nothing harms our marriage more than sleeping in different beds because we're mad at each other or going to bed mad at each other. We made a promise. You didn't keep that promise. But we did make a promise to not do that. It was your choice not to live up to that promise, not mine. I tried to get you to come to bed when you were mad. I tried to get you to calm down so many times in Toronto. In Toronto, in Venice and San Francisco, I would come to the seven different bathrooms if you were.

    And try throughout whether I was mad or hurt or not, because I saw the bigger picture, I didn't think it was worth it. I'm always the one trying to end it. You never let go of things. You constantly constantly do this.

     

    Johnny Depp (46:38)

    I'm sorry you feel that way.

     

    Amber Heard (46:40)

    You're never the one coming to me and saying, "Let's not fight anymore." You're never the one saying, "Come, just get into bed. Let's not go to bed mad like that." On the plane it was me. In Toronto it was me. It's always me.

     

    Johnny Depp (46:52)

    On the plane here from Rio, you were losing your marbles. I'm the one who came to you and said, "Listen, calm down. Please calm down." And you were blaming me because your flight was going to get in late and you wouldn't be able to have time before your thing.

     

    Amber Heard (47:14)

    Just think about it. The majority of our fights.

     

    Johnny Depp (47:18)

    Absolutely. Okay. I'll admit that. Yeah. The majority of our fights I hang on to it because it's f**king hard to let go. The sh*t that you go through in a fight can be painful and it's hard to forget sh*t.

     

    Amber Heard (47:35)

    Yeah no sh*t, but if you want to keep doing this and have a life where you are constantly are using that as ammunition, which you can shoot yourself in the head with, OK fine. But at least admit you're doing that. If you want to hold on to everything and never get over it and never let go of it, then don't scratch your head and go: I wonder why I'm so aggressive when you point out anything I did wrong. I wonder why I have so much resentment for you. I wonder why we fight so much. Stop scratching your head and wonder and just admit it's because you never let a f**king thing go. You can't get over anything, and that you won't and cannot calm yourself down when you're mad.

     

    Johnny Depp (48:08)

    So it's all my fault.

     

    Amber Heard (48:09)

    No. It's not. It's not.

     

    Johnny Depp (48:18)

    Yet you can sit here and find blame in everything that I do. But you never say a thing about yourself.

     

    Amber Heard (48:25)

    I remember including myself.

     

    Johnny Depp (48:27)

    You copped to last night.

     

    Amber Heard (48:29)

    I am including myself. . . . [Amber's voice is very quiet here. Some is unintelligible.] Sorry. Sorry. . . .so many mistakes. What I'm talking about is you do not let things go. I need this relationship to work. . . I do let things go. I see the bigger picture. I'm tired.

     

    Johnny Depp (49:07)

    I'm tired too man. You said you see the bigger picture and you do let things go. Yet, after Toronto, you were looking for apartments.

     

    Amber Heard (49:16)

    That was a hard one. And I did not say 100% of the time.

     

    Johnny Depp (49:17)

    And the plane was a hard one too.

     

    Amber Heard (49:18)

    And in no part of this conversation did I say I am perfect. . . . I'm saying that the vast majority of time these are patterns and I own them. I'm right and you know it. You don't have to admit it. You know what I'm saying is true. I'm able to see the bigger picture. . . .I do mean for better or for worse. I have honored my word to not leave. You ditched me last night, and I understand. I understand how sh*tty that got.  I understand my part in it. But it is a reaction to the f**king situation . . . created that's about to crack. . .  And that's the trust I talked about.

     NOTE: The event that happened "last night" is that Amber was hitting Johnny. 

     

    Johnny Depp (50:33)

    Like I said, the last thing in the world I want is for you to be unhappy or for me to let you down. And I do. I do make you unhappy. And I do let you down.

     

    Amber Heard (50:48)

    . . . I've seen you do better than this. I've seen you control yourself more. I've seen you react less. I've seen you in way more control. You get so f**king edgy and you get so mad so fast and you stay mad. I've seen this happen before and  I've also seen you better. I've seen you clearer. I've seen you better. I've seen you do better and you don't let me down. I subsequently would do better and let you down less. But [something about changing for quite a few months now] Now is the time. If you choose to stop it, f**king great, I will be . . .

    But I can't set myself up to be the only one to keep promises and wind up in another situation like Toronto where are you booking the room or trying to get me on a flight, or I'm not saying anything but I'm hearing all this sh*t and I'm not defending myself and I'm coming to you saying, I love you, and I'm trying to protect you for yourself, and I get destroyed. I can't do it again. I won't ever survive . . . and I don't to . . . be unhappy.

     

    Johnny Depp (52:29)

    I don't want to. I don't want you to. I don't want to be unhappy.

     

    Amber Heard (52:29)

    Instead of just like . . .

     

    Johnny Depp (52:42)

    You're saying to me that for a long time, I was able to keep everything together. And when we thought,. . . It was for a while, right?

     

    Amber Heard (52:54)

    Yeah. We could have arguments. It was like OK normal. Now we can't have an argument. No. Unh uh.

     

    Johnny Depp (53:02)

    Right. But there was one or two in Australia when I was calm-headed and all that sh*t. That, what am I reacting to if I'm trying to keep a cool head? I'm reacting to you f**king jumping.

     

    Amber Heard (53:20)

    No. Before I jump. Just a normal argument . . . Sometimes you just go, "That is rude," or you snap. . .

     

    Johnny Depp (53:22)

    But you tend to jump. You tend to jump.

     

    Amber Heard (53:35)
    All right. This is before the jump. This is like a normal, "F**k man that really f**king sucks. If I matter to you." Whatever it is. And it's not

       

      Johnny Depp (53:42)

      You think you don't matter to me?

       

      Amber Heard (53:43)

      [Unintelligible.] . . . I told you. I told you a million. I've actually told you about five times. I can't have a normal complaint. I can't have a normal complaint. I can't have any problems with you, "Baby, I feel like I can't tell you anything's wrong." "Baby, I feel like I can't be honest with you." "Baby, you've got to relax a little. What the f**k?" "I've got to be able to tell you if something's wrong." How many times have you heard me say that?

      I have told you this. I've also mentioned how different it was in Australia and . . .. Whatever that is. Is it clarity? Is it less Adderall? I don't know. Does it work? Something's affecting you. And I'm not judging you. I'm not. In fact, you have elucidated my opinion on medication. Do I not give you your meds every day? Do I not remind you to take them? Do I not. I know that you have to take medication. I am very aware of that. And you have actually changed my mind a bit as to how necessary they can be. I used to kind of think that they were, not superfluous, but I don't know, just like

       

      Johnny Depp (55:14)

      An escape.

       

      Amber Heard (55:16)

      Yeah, and now I don't think that. And that's because of you. You change my opinion about that. But I do know you. And you don't know moderation very well. You're allergic to moderation, so I balance you out I think a little bit. I try to keep you safe. I try to keep on you a little bit to remind you to take the good ones, you know. Do I not?

       

      Johnny Depp (55:42)

      You do.

       

      Amber Heard (55:42)

      Do I never give you a hard time?

       

      Johnny Depp (55:45)

      No, about the meds. No, you spoil me. Look, you do all those wonderful things. You take my boots off. . . . There are a lot of beautiful and wonderful things that you do for me that I've never even dreamt like someone would be so f**king caring as to, you know, "Hey, Baby, it's time for your meds," you know, and so beautiful that your wife is doing that. It's beautiful, you know, the act of just simply taking my f**king boots off when I get home from work. That is monumental stuff to me.

       

      Johnny Depp (56:48)

      The care throughout the day. You know, "Here, drink this vitamin water." You know, there are beautiful, beautiful, beautiful things that I could go on and on about you, about us, about how you've made me feel, how you changed my life. I do not want to be, I don't want to be a f**king sh*thead in your eyes.

       

      Amber Heard (57:33)

      Thank you for saying that.

       

      Johnny Depp (57:33)

      There are a lot of things. There's a lot of positives. There are a lot of positives. I'm not just saying it. I'm being honest.

       

      Amber Heard (58:44)

      [Unintelligible] . . . When I think of all the times it would have been very easy to walk based on the bad, the stress, and the fights, but I can't because you're my favorite person, . . . shinny, smart, sexy . . . something to fight for and I am trying. I just want to feel safe again. . .  Marriage for life right? Better or for worse and all that stuff . . .

       

      Johnny Depp (58:48)

      Of course. And we did . . .. But it is for better or for worse for me, it is. . . . I didn't leave last night because

       

      Amber Heard (59:07)

      You're making me feel like you're not there for

       

      Johnny Depp (59:16)

      I left last night, honestly, I swear to you, because I just couldn't take the idea of more physicality, more physical abuse on each other because had we continued, it would have gotten f**king bad. Baby, I told you this once. I'm scared to death of it. We are a f**king crime scene right now. If we don't get our sh*t together. By getting our sh*t together, that might mean f**king hey, we do this and we make it. That might mean, goddamn, you say "I've tried I'm done toodalou." But we've got to get our sh*t together as individuals and as a couple, because I love you and I do not want to leave you.

      I do not want to divorce. I do not want you out of my life. I just want peace.  And if I'm the culprit majority of the time, I will f**king do everything I can. And I will recognize when I'm f**king starting to go sideways. Recognize it. But please do the same. Please do the same. It's okay to fight like you said. It's okay.

       

      Amber Heard (01:01:05)

      How do you remember that? And how do you know that? Because sometimes you're so clear as to what is priority to you, what you care about, and then seem to forget it when you get mad.

       

      Johnny Depp (01:01:15)

      I can say the same thing about you and . . .

       

      Amber Heard (01:01:18)

      Sure, but I'm asking you what do you do. . .

       

      Johnny Depp (01:01:27)

      That's why I think the list is important. Two lists. One: here are things that you do that can hurt me, or f**k with me, or makes me mad, or this or that. And we take it without freaking out. Just take it, and own it, and study it. And if we have a different opinion, let's talk it out a little bit. Let's talk it out a little bit. And I'll make a f**king list. You make a f**king list of all the things that you think you do that you'd like to change, the things that I do that I'd like to change. In fact, that's the first list we should write.

       

      Amber Heard (01:02:28)

      I was going to say that the first list that you mentioned, it's just, someone once said to me that as soon as you start listing what you don't like about the other person, the relationship is over. They kinda said as an aside . . .

       

      Johnny Depp (01:02:51)

      Write me a letter, put it in an envelope every morning, if you want, or on our little notebook. . . .Please love me today. Please don't hurt me today. Please don't get crazy today.

       

      Amber Heard (01:03:18)

      Then what happens if one of us gets hurt? . . .  I can't keep throwing our relationship in the air every time we get mad because all bets are off every time blood pressure goes up a certain amount.

       

      Johnny Depp (01:03:30)

      These don't have to be followed through with. These are just things that I suggest because you f**k some cock says, "You make a list, it's like." F**k that. Look, it doesn't have to be gross. I don't need a list. You just went through the majority. And you don't have to make the other f**king list. I'll make the other list.

       

      Amber Heard (01:04:09)

      No, I'm not saying I won't make the other list. I agree about that one. I just want to know what we're going to do differently and how to help check each other on what the other one needs so that it doesn't get to this point. I can't keep living like this.

       

      Johnny Depp (01:04:20) 

      I can't keep living like this either. I've got less time on the f**king planet than you. I'm not going to spend the rest of my life f**king fighting and being a drag to someone that I f**king adore. I'm not living my life like that man, the rest of my f**king days, which f**k what have I got? Who knows. F**king month? f**king two weeks? God damn 30 years? f**king no. Life is short. Precious. I don't want to f**k up yours. You know. And I don't want you to f**k up mine.

       

      Abuse OF Men BY Women: It Happens, It Hurts, and It's Time to Get Real About It
       

      Full Transcript Johnny Depp and Amber Heard Audio Recording, Sept 2015, Hour Two

      This is a full transcript of the 2nd hour of Amber and Johnny's Sept 26, 2015 conversation. 

      The recording is difficult to hear sometimes. Those periods are marked as "unintelligible". I listened to the recording repeatedly to try to pick up the quieter moments, but I couldn't get everything.

      April 2022 Update on ways to listen to the conversation:

      I'm not offering this as a perfect transcript, but I worked at making it really close. 

      The recording times that appear are approximate. There is a "2" preceding the time to designate it as being from the 2nd hour of the conversation.

      [WARNING: The transcript includes swear words and discussion that may be triggering to abuse survivors.]
       
      Johnny Depp (2- 00:00)
      I'd like a bit more understanding from both of us.

      Amber Heard (2- 00:16)
      That sounds very good. And I agree. But what about the what in the moment? Going to do different in the moment when you're mad and you go "f**k it" and you decide all bets are off.

      Johnny Depp (2- 00:30)
      In the moment. Look what I did in Australia. Look what I accomplished. I put the f**ker away. I told myself every f**king day. No, he's gone. No. He's going to f**king put him away and by a list of the things that I feel that f**k you over or make you feel sh*tty or anything like that. When we're in the moment, I remember it. I remember what I put on my list. I remember it. And I try to bring it down notches. Many notches. I'll try, if we're heightened to say, "Please, I don't want you to feel this. I don't want to feel this." Let's

      Amber Heard (2- 01:36)
      I need to know what we need to do different.

      Johnny Depp (2- 01:40)
      It's got to be done with your mind and your heart.

      Amber Heard (2- 01:42)
      What do we do different if I have a problem? You need to tell me how to tell you different. If I'm hurting you, you need to let me be able to be mad. Sometimes you're going to make me mad. I'm a human. I cannot live where it's like.

      Johnny Depp (2- 01:56)
      Well, then it's the same thing goes for me. Then you're going to have to allow me to get mad.

      Amber Heard (2- 01:59)
      Yes, exactly.

      Johnny Depp (2- 02:01)
      Okay. But I get mad and you start f**king yelling.

      Amber Heard (2- 02:06)
      I don't have to start yelling. I think I start yelling once it gets f**king heightened. I've gotten a lot better about that. I only start yelling when it's f**king hour eleven, and we're really in it.

      Johnny Depp (2- 02:19)
      You haven't gotten better about that. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had three physical fights in the last month and a half. Two months.

      Amber Heard (2- 02:26)
      Sorry about the yelling.

      Johnny Depp (2- 02:28)
      No, but you witnessed it. You're the one that brought it up. Australia was f**king great. We just argued. Let's go back there. Let's go back there in our f**king heads and on our hearts. Let's go back there and know on your list.

      Amber Heard (2- 02:51)
      Is the monster gone? Did you put them away? It's been so--when you get on that train and get angry, you stay on it for so long and you won't come down, you won't talk to the person that's

      Johnny Depp (2- 03:02)
      That's not always the case.

      Amber Heard (2- 03:04)
      It doesn’t always have to be the monster, doesn't but what is it? Can you put that away? Can you remember the bigger picture? You don't want to spend your life. I've asked you this so many times in fights, "Do you want to spend your time like this?" No, you don't. But I ask you because this is something you're choosing. I'm saying to you, "olive branch," and you don't take my olive branches. You made me feel humiliated for offering them. You asked me to stay in Australia. I stayed, and then you walk out on me all the time. You've got to take some olive branches from me. You've got to offer them too. You got to be bigger than what you feel at that moment. And so do I. But if I call you on it, will you hear it?

      Johnny Depp (2- 03:46)
      Yeah.

      Amber Heard (2- 03:47)
      You call me out on it if I'm doing it.

      Johnny Depp (2- 03:50)
      Yes, I will. And I'll do it in a f**king as peaceful and as calm and manner as I possibly can. I don't want to instigate any fights. I do not want to fight anymore.

      Amber Heard (2- 04:14)
      Yes, but say, we're having an argument and you get mad. How do you talk to the [unintelligible] in front of me right now? What do I need to say? What do I need to do? We don't want to spend our life mad like, that doesn't mean you have to like what I'm saying or doing, or vice versa.

      Johnny Depp (2- 04:33)
      Can't you just say, "Baby, please, please don't [unintelligible] please don't. Let's not yell. Please don't." You know what I mean? And I'll do the same.

      Amber Heard (2- 04:46)
      Promise.

      Johnny Depp (2- 04:49)
      Yes. Why would I say it, if I didn't?

      Amber Heard (2- 04:53)
      Because sometimes you don't keep what you say. And I want things to be [unintelligible].

      Johnny Depp (2- 04:59)
      So now my words don't [unintelligible].

      Amber Heard (2- 05:00)
      No, that's not the case. It's just that sometimes when you get mad, it's like you disconnect from the person that you are right now, and I'm wondering just how to [unintelligible].

      Johnny Depp (2- 05:14)
      How do I calm you down when you go into a flurry.

      Amber Heard (2- 05:25)
      Maybe say, "Baby, please calm down."

      Johnny Depp (2- 05:27)
      Basically, the bigger picture.

      Amber Heard (2- 05:29)
      Something that will remind me of this conversation. You know when I'm upset I'm feeling like it's pointless.

      Johnny Depp (2- 05:30)
      And you won't lie.

      Amber Heard (2- 05:30)
      I don't ever lie. I know you and I remember, see things differently sometimes, but I'm not lying. For someone who . . . I know that's your deepest fear and that's why it comes up in fights and stuff. But you got of trust issue in general, in life.

      Johnny Depp (2- 06:07)
      Oh, yeah.

      Amber Heard (2- 06:09)
      I never f**ked you over. I'm not going to. And anybody who knows me if they do list two or three things about me. Adjectives about me. One of those three would be super honest, straightforward, honest. Everyone else in my life. I know you have trust issues, but you can't let it cloud you know me. It comes up a lot. I know you have an issue with it. It's not me. You can trust me.

      Johnny Depp (2- 06:43)
      Say that to me at the time.

      Amber Heard (2- 07:06)
      Say what?

      Johnny Depp (2- 07:06)
      What you just said. Say that stuff to me at the time. It depends. Let's both pay attention to how we talk to each other, to respect each other.

      Amber Heard (2- 07:17)
      We're not going to do that all the time. But we made a promise to each other about [unintelligible] divorce. [unintelligible] To feel like the marriage I worked so hard to make happen, it's like meaningful.

      Johnny Depp (2- 07:45)
      Don't talk about making the wedding happen. Talk about the four years you've spent together. Please.

      Amber Heard (2- 07:51)
      Yes, but I want to make it. I have those four years no matter what. But I fought for that wedding, and we had that wedding. Beautiful wedding. For what if we don't. It means something. Like there's some

      Johnny Depp (2- 08:07)
      It did mean something. And it does mean something. And I didn't get married to you for f**king, you know, 17 more fights and it's f**king over with. We got married. I knew the f**king fights weren't going to stop, but I thought maybe it would curb them a little.

      Amber Heard (2- 08:45)
      I wanted the security, but I freak out. I freak out and cannot make normal decisions, calm decisions from the heart when I'm thinking of you and me, when I feel like you're splitting on me, all the time, when the marriage is on the rock. I make the same mistake about throwing our marriage around. I won't do it again. Not going to do it again. Okay?

      Johnny Depp (2- 09:08)
      Please.

      Amber Heard (2- 09:08)
      I'm not. I promise, but there's something so anxiety provoking and scary and malicious and really just turns everything over when you split all the time. Please, if you really don't want to fight and you're not just trying to hurt me, which sometimes it is that. If you really love me and you do care about this, please find a good way to do it that's respectful. You can tell me that you are. I need to know that we will be able to talk about it, because the problem I have is when we don't communicate, it comes in me, grows up in me and becomes cancer in me. It got worse every day when we were back in Toronto, got worse every single day. Not better. Worse. Until we spoke about it after [unintelligible]'s birthday. We talked about it. Then it was okay. But I don't want to resent you.

      Johnny Depp (2- 10:24)
      I don't want to resent you. I don't want to not trust

      Amber Heard (2- 10:36)
      Do you know how many times I've chased you out of the elevator in the hall. Stop doing that. I'm not nit-picking. I don't mean to be focusing on something. But if it's a major thing to me, and it is a major.

      Johnny Depp (2- 10:52)
      If things get physical, we have to separate. We have to be apart from one another. Whether it's for f**king an hour or 10 hours or f**king a day, we must. There can be no physical violence.

      Amber Heard (2- 11:13)
      I agree about the physical violence, but separating for a day or night, taking a night off from our marriage. That just means it opens up.

      Johnny Depp (2- 11:22)
      No. No. No. Listen, I'm just giving examples. It could be f**king three minutes. It could be f**king two weeks. I'm just saying

      Amber Heard (2- 11:28)
      No but we need to agree on certain boundaries, so we have boundaries again. We need to make agreements and hold each other accountable to them and ourselves accountable to them which is why I bringing this up.

      Johnny Depp (2- 11:39)
      I'm not saying anything negative.

      Amber Heard (2- 11:41)
      I know.

      Johnny Depp (2- 11:42)
      All I'm saying is we need to take whatever time we need, you need, or I need, to kind of let things settle for a minute, so that we don't f**king kill each other, or f**king worse, like really kill each other, or f**king break up, or whatever. Help me. I'll help you.

      Amber Heard (2- 12:25)
      This is the thing that makes me feel unsafe. To be honest, this is what makes me not sure.

      Johnny Depp (2- 12:31)
      What's that?

      Amber Heard (2- 12:34)
      It's that there's like

      Johnny Depp (2- 12:38)
      Walking away, going to our corner.

      Amber Heard (2- 12:40)
      No loopholes. Like, oh, go and take the time you need. Take the time you need. OK fine, every time I get mad at you, I can go split. Except for, oh, wait, I don't have my own place to split to.

      Johnny Depp (2- 12:49)
      No Amber, stop.

      Amber Heard (2- 12:52)
      You know, it makes me think I should. I don't have a place I can go. I don't have a, I'd have to go to a hotel. I don't have the funds to do that.

      Johnny Depp (2- 13:04)
      That's not what I'm talking about.

      Amber Heard (2- 13:07)
      I think we should control ourselves and not get physical. And if it gets physical and we dropped that wall then we're going to drop the other ones and you're going to f**king split, or I'm going to f**kin' split

      Johnny Depp (2- 13:29)
      You may be right, but you can't predict the future once again. Here's what I'm saying. If the fight escalates to the point of where it's just insulting for both of us, or if it gets to that physical f**king sh*t, the violence, that's when we just say, "Look, let's go to our corners, man. You hang wherever you want. Baby I'm going in the office and I'm just going to f**king sit there and try and degellify my f**king brain." I'm not talking about me running out of the f**king house.

      I'm not talking about me splitting because I'm f**king [unintelligible] and a coward or whatever. I'm talking about, go to corners. I'll go to my little office. You can have the house. You just take the house and wander wherever you want. I won't f**king come bother you. And if at a point you're feeling like better after ten minutes, come knock on the door and

      Amber Heard (2- 14:42)
      I always do that.

      Johnny Depp (2- 14:45)
      Please let me finish.

      Amber Heard (2- 14:48)
      Sorry

      Johnny Depp (2- 14:48)
      And if in ten minutes, I'm feeling like, all right, I got the solution for this, or I know how we can, you know. Please, I'll come knock on your f**king door or I'll come find you.

      Amber Heard (2- 15:06)
      Will you try? Will you try to not make it an all-night thing?

      Johnny Depp (2- 15:12)
      I just told you.

      Amber Heard (2- 15:16)
      Will you try and not make it a lifestyle. I mean, will you try and remind yourself that they can just be fights and try and

      Johnny Depp (2- 15:25)
      Absolutely.

      Amber Heard (2- 15:30)
      Respect that it doesn’t have to be all night. I don't want to go to bed mad. And we were doing really good with each other. We've been doing it for a long time.

      Johnny Depp (2- 15:36)
      I know, but we weren't insulting one another to the point of like, wow, like the way I insulted you in Toronto or the way you insulted me on the plane or whatever. Let's not get to that point. That's bullsh*t. That's kindergarten sh*t. We don't f**king need to do that. What we could do is just try to be f**king calm and say, "Look, this is getting somewhere I don't like. Please, let's take an hour, max." I'll go in and f**king write, and try and figure it out. Get it out. Whatever. I'm just making suggestions to try and f**king save us.

      Amber Heard (2- 16:57)
      We need to honor our promises. I cannot. Nor can you. You don't deserve to be in a relationship that is walked away from all the time. I would never want you to do that. I never want you to be there. You deserve better. So do I.

      Johnny Depp (2- 17:19)
      Indeed.

      Amber Heard (2- 17:19)
      It cannot be constantly, constantly, any time I'm upset or mad or hurt, anything, I f**k up, God, if I yell, if I f**k up ever--ditched. That's not marriage. Most people don't have the two or three houses they can go to. It's always I'm in your house, and you always split.

      Johnny Depp (2- 17:40)
      Listen, you can't be saying that if that's what you feel, you feel that from you because you didn't get that from me. I never f**king said this is my house and my house only.

      Amber Heard (2- 17:53)
      Kind of.

      Johnny Depp (2- 17:56)
      No, it's our f**king house.

      Amber Heard (2- 17:59)
      You always remind me that.

      Johnny Depp (2- 18:04)
      I got Rocky and Josh living there. I got Whitney living there. So don't 
       

      Who are Rocky, Josh, and Whitney?

        Rocky is Amber's friend Raquel Pennington. Josh is Raquel's boyfriend turned fiancée. Raquel and Josh lived rent-free in one of Johnny's penthouses for several years. (Johnny had a cluster of 5 penthouses in a high-end landmark LA apartment building. He and Amber used 3 of them. One of Johnny's friends lived in another of the penthouses rent-free.) Whitney is Amber's sister. Whitney lived in the penthouses for free for a year. 
       
      Amber Heard (2- 18:10)
      But you say it in fights, and use it in fights. And I'm sorry, but I feel like there's security in the commitment from you for me that we have destroyed both of us. And I don't know if that matters to you personally, like if you need that.

      Johnny Depp (2- 18:31)
      It absolutely matters to me.

      Amber Heard (2- 18:33)
      But I do. And, I can't promise you that I'll be perfect. I can't promise you I won't get physical again. God, I f**king sometimes get so mad, I lose it. I can f**king promise you I'll do everything to change. I promise you I'm not going to throw around divorce. I will not say divorce unless I really mean it. Unless it's it. And then I hope you leave me. And me too. I will leave you. It's fair. I can't do it. And I think, honestly, if we hold each other accountable for that, it's fair.

      Johnny Depp (19:14)
      That's what I said earlier. Look, if we get to that point where it's like this is f**king much, we f**king, man, shake hands and walk away.

      Amber Heard (2- 19:27)
      But you don't do it 'til you're leaving. That's my point.

      Johnny Depp (2- 19:31)
      Trust me. I'm not going to do it unless I mean it. If I say it, I will be leaving. If you say it, I'll get the f**k out or whatever.

      Amber Heard (2- 19:47)
      Promise me. That ring does not come off.

      Johnny Depp (2- 19:49)
      Yeah, unless I say the word or unless you say the word. Well, or you just take the ring off because that's the same thing. That'll be the same thing.

      Amber Heard (2- 19:59)
      What I'm saying. In fact, if you want a f**king divorce, you're going to tell me not in a fight. Let's be honest. That's a decision, a lifelong decision, that even you and me as hotheads, know you can't make forever decisions when you're mad like that. Certainly feels like you and I both, even though we're hotheads, we do know the difference. However, it's nothing we should say to each other in a fight ever. And if you promise me, and I promise you, and we need to hold each other accountable. I have nothing to hang onto. You didn't come home last night. I feel like I have nothing to hang on to. This semblance of marriage, or commitment, or stability. If I can just get up and walk away and spend the night somewhere else.

      Johnny Depp (2- 21:14)
      Obviously you can.

      Amber Heard (2- 21:17)
      I believe it's done, if I do that. That's not marriage.

      Johnny Depp (2- 21:26)
      We talked about it. You know why I left?

      Amber Heard (2- 21:30)
      I do know why you left.

      Why did Johnny leave?

        In the first hour of this conversation, Amber admitted that she had hit Johnny the night before. Johnny left the penthouse and went to his house in LA after Amber hit him the night before. 


      Johnny Depp (2- 21:37)
      I'm saying now that I won't do the same thing. I will not f**king leave until some rational decision is made.

      Amber Heard (2- 21:55)
      Promise.

      Johnny Depp (2- 21:55)
      If it's the end, it's the end. If we can keep going, we'll keep going.

      Amber Heard (2- 21:59)
      Promise.

      Johnny Depp (2- 21:59)
      I promise. I promise. I hope you can trust me.

      Amber Heard (2- 22:52)
      [unintelligible] our marriage [unintelligible]. I want to commit to you forever, for better or worse. I don't want it to be this transient, oh it's okay to leave. It's acceptable to do this, or it's acceptable to say this about us splitting or breaking up or leaving. We should fall asleep together every night. Ideally, never mad. Ideally, never mad. I'd love to say,

      Johnny Depp (2- 23:11)
      Of course.

      Amber Heard (2- 23:12)
      I can promise that, but I don't know if it's possible. I'd love to strive for it.

      Johnny Depp (2- 23:17)
      Yeah. You weren't ready for that last night for sure.

      Amber Heard (2- 23:20)
      No. I f**ked up last night. And I am sorry.

      Johnny Depp (2- 23:27)
      So let's understand that we're both guilty of the same share at times.

      Amber Heard (2- 23:31)
      No one's saying that more than me, though. I am saying that. It's just chronically overweighed with, and I need that to be something you realize. And you know. It's affecting more than just me. It's affecting our marriage. It's affecting our trust. How I resent you. How I like you without the fight being happening. I'm not trying to rub your nose in it. I feel sometimes like you omit something. You acknowledge it and it will be beautiful. And then you'll go back on it kind of like in your vocabulary, after. And then I feel like, "Wait a second. Is he taking it back?" You know what I mean?

      Johnny Depp (2- 24:08)
      I do know what you mean. But like I said before, I haven't cornered the market on that. When you start the f**king yelling, it f**king gets crazy. And that makes me not feel, for lack of a better word, safe within the relationship. You know. Understanding of, oh, well, it's not just nothing. Because if it keeps going, if it's always sort of there, then I f**king worry about the marriage. I worry how much longer can I deal with this? How much longer can she deal with this? F**k, man.

      So I had the same trust issues. I've had the same disappointments. I've had the same. Maybe not to the degree you have. I'm assuming. So, man, when you start f**king honking, you know what I mean?

      Amber Heard (2- 25:40)
      Call me out on it and help me.

      Johnny Depp (2- 25:41)
      I will. I will try.

      Amber Heard (2- 25:41)
      Help me [unintelligible] I may not even realize that I'm doing it, but you've got to help me. But it can't be an excuse to leave.

      Johnny Depp (2- 25:45)
      I will try. I will try to help you. If I tried to help you, and I can help you, f**k why would I leave? If I try to help you and I can't help you say, "Baby, I'm taking an hour. I'm in my f**king office. If you want to talk, come get me. Otherwise, I'll come check on you in an hour."

      Amber Heard (2- 26:16)
      That would be really helpful.

      Johnny Depp (2- 26:17)
      All right?

      Amber Heard (2- 26:18)
      I promise you I'll leave you alone for that hour. I promise you I'm not going to freak out.

      Johnny Depp (2- 26:24)
      I just want you to have your time to be able to calm down or my time to be able to calm down.

      Amber Heard (2- 26:41)
      It really helps if you give a time, if it's not just

      Johnny Depp (2- 26:41)
      Say an hour.

      Amber Heard (2- 26:41)
      "I promise I will resume this." I just need to know that we will talk about it. Otherwise, I'm dealing with cancer. I'm dealing with something that's just festers and gets worse and worse. You have to realize that in that kind of situation, a few minutes is fine. But then after a certain point, it becomes way worse and it becomes way harder to reason, to rationalize with. Kipper can tell you. He says he's the same way. I just [unintelligible] and we work a very different way, so we need to meet in the middle. You know?
       

      Who is Kipper?


      Dr. Kipper is Johnny's long-time doctor. He also treated Amber.


      Johnny Depp (2- 27:27)
      I do understand all that. But I also want you to understand there were great moments with high hopes that it was just all cool. And then whatever happens, this happens, that happens, we have a spat or a fight or a f**king blowout. I just want you to know that the way you're feeling about being unsure of us, of the marriage, whether you can trust me to be this or whether you can, whether I can do the same. I feel very much the same.

      Amber Heard (2- 28:29)
      At least you have the added luxury that you take for granted, no offense, you do take for granted that you have added luxury of knowing that I'm there and that I mean it forever. Because I show up. I am knocking. I'm the one that asks to calm down. I'm the one comes to get you on the plane. I'm the one that comes and knocks on the bathroom door. I'm the one that comes into the house, that you run away to. I'm the one that comes to and says, "This isn't worth it," or what's right for this marriage, or whatever. You have an added luxury. You just are taking for granted in such a big way. And you don't know how much that means. If I ran from you the way I used to before the marriage, we would not be together. When I used to run away, whatever, when I felt like it was justified, how many times did we almost break up? How terrible was that? How terrible was it for you? We would not be together if I did that, and you take for granted that I show up, and that I fight for us, and that I am the one to come over. I'm the one that comes out into the hall. I am the one. I have a hot head, just like you. But what a luxury you have. If you take that for granted, you're so. What a luxury. I'd do anything to have that feeling. At least in the back of my mind, I'd know that you showed up, that you'd fought for me, that you cared for me enough to

      Johnny Depp (2- 29:52)
      Here's what you're missing in that little paragraph. What you're missing is you're the one who comes and gets me. You're the one who comes and says you're sorry. You're the one that comes and tries to calm me down. But why am I riled up?

      Amber Heard (2- 30:15)
      We're both riled up. It's not like every time I've done something to you in a vacuum. Baby, I don't doubt you're riled up, but I'm riled up too, and I said this to you on the couch. I said this to you before. We both have. It's subjective. You have your reasons. I have my reasons for a reaction. There is something that caused it, and I have the same thing. I'm mad in the same way.

      Johnny Depp (2- 30:39)
      But what caused it? What caused it could be so irrational, and so farfetched, and so minute. Minute.

      Amber Heard (2- 30:51)
      That's what I say to you every time that you want to have a big fight. Every time I go, this could be something small. Why wasn't this just an argument, "Baby, why wasn't this just an argument?" Yes, you're right. Sometimes it could be very small. Sometimes it's not. Either way, it doesn't negate what I'm saying to you. What a gift. I would do anything to trade places with you. You talk about insecurity.

      Johnny Depp (2- 31:13)
      I don't know how you can see I'm taking it for granted. That's a f**king insult.

      Amber Heard (2- 31:17)
      You talk about trust and you feel the same way. You don't feel the same. You couldn't. Because the difference is you at least have the knowledge in the back of your head that you can fall back on that I showed up, that I fought for you, that I checked on you, that I came to get you, that I said, "I love you," that I saved the marriage. If it were up to you, and I treated you the way you treated me, we would not be together. Let's face it, it's because I f**king fight for this. It's because I come over and last time I didn't. Which is what I should always do. And I am learning my f**king lesson. It's just when you walk, f**king let you walk. And that time I can't tell you how dumb it was. It was like this time in Toronto. I was looking for apartments. I was preparing to tell my folks, my parents. I was done. And you called me and you're like, "Well, I'm about to go out of town," or whatever and ended up like that. Whatever. I told you, I wasn't ready to see you because it had gotten so much worse that I was basically like I just need to change my life and my life is different. I am no longer with this person, and I'm now single. I need to get my sh*t together, find an apartment, do all this stuff. It got so much worse. And honestly, if that happens one more time, we will break up. I know we won't survive it. That was so severe. The damage was so severe. When you spent a week here, you said, I want to go away for a day. You wrote me a note I left on the kitchen counter and you said, I just need to clear my head for a night, maybe two. I didn't hear from you for six.

      Johnny Depp (2- 32:58)
      When I [unintelligible]?

      Amber Heard (2- 32:58)
      No, this is here. You came here. I stayed downtown. You were gone for six, seven days. And then I didn't even let you spend the night in the house. Remember? You came over. We talked. I wasn't even ready. You know how long it took me to take down those walls that I built up? It took forever to build those. It took me so long to trust you even a little bit again. I resented you so much. Damage was very deep. And I know that if I let that happen again in my heart, I know we wouldn't survive it. So you walk out and I have one option. That's why I come to you. If I let it go like I did last time, which is what I should do. Because if you're willing to walk out, you should be walking out. But I let it go. And it was a f**king week. And I'll never get some of that back.

      I'll never have that trust quite the same way. You left me a note saying, I'm going to be gone for a night. We didn't speak for a week. I didn't even hear from you. You didn't check. I mean, nothing.

      Johnny Depp (2- 34:13)
      So you thought we were broke up?

      Amber Heard (2- 34:15)
      Oh, yeah. I was preparing to have that conversation with you and be done.

      Johnny Depp (2- 34:19)
      Oh, you just said you were single.

      Amber Heard (2- 34:21)
      No. I said I was preparing myself to think that way. Take care of my own life, get my own apartment.

      Johnny Depp (2- 34:32)
      I hope it doesn't get to that.

      Amber Heard (2- 34:34)
      No, of course. When I didn't fight for it, when I [unintelligible] At least you have in the back of your mind that I come, that I show up. I don't have that.

      Johnny Depp (2- 35:04)
      I don't take that for granted, by the way. I don't always know that you'll come. That you'll be knocking. I don't always know that you want to talk. If I go, I go because I think, "F**k, we're screwed. Can't live like this." Like I said, like you said, if walk out the door, you walk out of the door, that is the same as rings off. It's the same thing as mentioning divorce. There's no talking unless we just want to try to be civil with one another as people who are married. I hate even saying that kind of sh*t, but, yeah, if I walk out again, I'm walking out and I'll know that and you'll know that. If you do that, same deal.

      [Extended silence]

      Johnny Depp (2- 37:21)
      I love you Amber, and I'll always do my best to make you happy. [unintelligible] you regain the trust, respect, whatever you feel that you that you've lost for me. And I hope you can make the changes that f**k with me. And if we want to do it, we'll do it. Ultimately, if we don't want to do it, we know the result, because we're definitely at the end of any of that sh*t, all the anger at each other, we're definitely at the end of any of that kind of sh*t. There's no more. No more.

      Amber Heard (2- 39:01)
      Can you let it go? [unintelligible] It's like you hold on [unintelligible]. It's like my mom said, neither of us are forgiving of each other.

      Johnny Depp (2- 39:01)
      Well, I don't think we can forgive each other this quickly.

      Amber Heard (2- 39:05)
      I'm not saying that.

      Johnny Depp (2- 39:05)
      With time, it will lessen. But, everything that I said you are not going to be able to unhear it, and the same for me, I'm not going to be able to unhear it. [unintelligible] but just got to write it off and get past it. If I didn't want to be with you, I wouldn't be with you. If you didn't want to be with me, you wouldn't be with me. That's really what it boils down to. So if we want to be together, let's do our best to fix what's broken within the machine. Within our machine that is us.

      [extended silence]

      Amber Heard (2- 40:09)
      [unintelligible] That's why I came. I'm still married to you.

      Johnny Depp (2- 40:09)
      [unintelligible] I hate having to leave. [unintelligible] I couldn't fall asleep. I took an Ambien and a half, finally. Woke up 3 hours later, feeling like, "Why? F**king why?"

      Amber Heard (2- 40:09)
      I hope this is important enough for you.

      Johnny Depp (2- 40:09)
      It is important. Why do you say that?

      Amber Heard (2- 40:09)
      I can't do it alone. I woke up first thing I called you [unintelligible] feeling foolish. And I understand part of it, but I also see like. You know I love you. [unintelligible] my issues. At least you know I love you. You know I love you more than me. At lease You know that. That I love you more than me.

      Johnny Depp (2- 43:05)
      More than yourself?

      Amber Heard (2- 43:05)
      Yeah. You don't debase yourself and embarrass yourself like that. [unintelligible] for you, because you're worried about protecting yourself.

      [Silence and unintelligible]

      Amber Heard (2- 43:15)
      Your feet are swollen.

      Johnny Depp (2- 43:15)
      What?

      Amber Heard (2- 43:15)
      Your ankles are swollen. Did you take your morning meds?

      Johnny Depp (2- 43:16)
      They're not swollen.

      Amber Heard (2- 43:18)
      Not swelling?

      Johnny Depp (2- 44:32)
      No.

      [unintelligible]

      Johnny Depp (2- 44:32)
      I don't want to do anything bad to you. I don't want to harm you. I don't want to hurt you. Like I said, I'll do every f**king thing that I can, but it's got to be reciprocal.

      Amber Heard (2- 44:34)
      Yes, I agree.

      Johnny Depp (2- 44:37)
      What you did by calling me last night. You fell asleep on the phone, you realize that.

      Amber Heard (2- 44:44)
      Yeah. I'm sorry I had to Ambien myself, again. Could you tell I was sleeping?

      Johnny Depp (2- 45:01)
      I thought you were sleeping once before. I think you might have fallen asleep once before, and then woke up and continued to talk. [unintelligible] then suddenly there was just no more and you were just gone.

      Amber Heard (2- 45:05)
      I really don't want to sleep without you again. Just don't walk away. Don't walk away. I'm sorry I did it, but sometimes that f**king thing happens. You do it too sometimes where you just. But it can't be the end of. Our marriage is bigger than that obviously.

      Johnny Depp (2- 45:32)
      We don't need to ever get to that point.

      Amber Heard (2- 45:32)
      I agree. I agree, but

      Johnny Depp (2- 45:32)
      I hope we don't. I hope we don't. I love you and I want you to be my wife. I want to be your husband and I want to be a good husband. And if I haven't been, I'll do everything I can to find out how to be a good husband.

      Amber Heard (2- 46:47)
      You're a great husband. You really are. It's just hard if anything comes up [unintelligible] big deal. There's a bump. Then it's hard. I love you and I know that we can be so good.

      Johnny Depp (2- 47:09)
      Amazing.

      Amber Heard (2- 47:14)
      And I'm here trying to move forward, forgive each other.

      Johnny Depp (2- 47:19)
      I know we had our fights today to try to settle whatever the f**k all this scrambled crazy sh*t that one thing reminds you of another, and you find yourself going back into some other fight and it's all scrambled. It's all f**king jumbled. It's like white noise, all moving around. I'm glad that we got to a point where we were sh*tty with each other. I'm glad we got to a point where we didn't f**king know how this was going to end. But I'm telling you, coming here today is f**king courageous and it's f**king happening. For you come here to talk to me and try to work things out. And to tell me these problems, things that I do to f**k with you. I'm changing. And you're changing and I want us to change together.

      Amber Heard (2- 49:09)
      Thank you for sitting with me and actually having a conversation with me. I did not expect that. And I'm really proud of you for not running away. Not walking away. I'm proud of you for that. It means that we can actually hash out these things. Some things have to be said and maybe left. We will never forget a lot of things, but we can forgive. We really do need to let us really need to. My mom is right there's absolutely. It's just adding weight. We're just carrying around those stones. And mom is right. I know she is.

      Johnny Depp (2- 50:04)
      She is right. She's right on the f**king money. She's on it. We can make it if we want to. We can get through the sh*t if we want to. If you're unsure right now.

      Amber Heard (2- 50:56)
      No, I'm not. I love you. I needed the security thing. I needed to have something to hold on to. Or else, why?

      Johnny Depp (2- 51:15)
      Tell me an issue. Just tell me before it becomes something you've held inside for so long that it wants to just explode. And I'll tell you the same.

      And then, once we can f**king get the sh*t out without it being some huge drama, or even if it is a huge drama, once you can get the sh*t out, recognize it. And like you said, f**king, it's gone. Chuck it. It doesn't work. That method does not work fast. Bam, it's gone. It kills me the possibility that you would think that I take so much for granted, or that I'm untrustworthy, or a bad husband. I'm not asking you to elaborate on anything I'm saying. All I'm saying is, I would f**king die if I knew that was how you thought of me.

      Now I know what I know. And I'll f**king do my best to get it together, so that I don't f**k with you and you don't f**k with me. And we're a couple again. And we're friends again. Don't fight. Love.

      Amber Heard (2- 53:32)
      I promise I won't explode, if we just do the things a little different in the fight. Don't walk away from me. Do it in a different way. And I promise I won't resort to the same sh*t. I promise.

      Johnny Depp (2- 53:54)
      Thank you. I'm not f**king hopeless. Hopeless happens and we get all f**king edgy with each other. Instead of standing squaring-off like a couple of fighters, maybe let's, try to sit down. Seriously, sit down. Even if we say, "Hey, listen, we're fighting like bastards let's sit down and have a glass of wine and talk through this." I know you got it in you. I know you got it in you. And I know that I have it in me. It's just a question of realizing it and admitting what, you know.
      What you got?

      Amber Heard (2- 55:57)
      I was just pausing it. I realized that I'm running out of battery. It's still rolling.

      Johnny Depp (2- 55:57)
      Oh. Here. [unintelligible] Jack? He's doing a Halloween thing?
       

      Who is Jack?


      John Christopher “Jack” Depp III, is Johnny Depp's son with his ex, Vanessa Paradis. Jack was born in born 2002.

       
      Amber Heard (2- 55:56)
      Yeah, he's going to like a Halloween thing. He said he wanted to stop by before. He sent me a thing this morning at 10:45. Said, "Hey, dad, sorry I missed you. I was at a place where murderers chase you with weapons and stuff." 10:45.

      Johnny Depp (2- 56:23)
      He said, "You want to meet up today?" At 10:57, I hit him and said, "Yes, sir. I'm at 80. I'm ready anytime you say." And he says, yeah, just woke up. So I got to wait till like a half." Or is that one or two? That's probably half. I said, "Whenever you want bub. I'll be here whenever you are." He said, "Thanks, dad. See you soon. Can't wait."

      Amber Heard (2- 57:11)
      That's it today at 1:00, right?

      Johnny Depp (2- 57:43)
      Yeah, well, that's all right. Maybe he was afraid to tell me or something.

      Amber Heard (2- 58:00)
      I'm going back home.

      Johnny Depp (2- 58:00)
      You going back down? I thought you had sh*t you had to do.

      Amber Heard (2- 58:01)
      What?

      Johnny Depp (2- 58:01)
      I thought you had sh*t you had to do. No?

      Amber Heard (2- 58:09)
      No. You asked me that earlier too.

      Johnny Depp (2- 58:09)
      Because last night you said.

      Amber Heard (2- 58:12)
      I'm blowing off [unintelligible] I have to clean out the closet. I'm not going to do any of it. I just want to have some dinner and a glass of wine. And if you want join me.

      Johnny Depp (2- 58:40)
      I want to do that right now. Let's go.

      Amber Heard (2- 59:23)
      I love you. I love you.

      Johnny Depp (2- 59:36)
      I love you. I love you. Forgive me. Or let me earn your forgiveness. I forgive you.

      Amber Heard (2- 59:37)
      Do you?

      Johnny Depp (2- 59:38)
      I forgive you.

      Amber Heard (2- 59:39)
      I'm really sorry. I am.

      Johnny Depp (2- 59:40)
      Thank you. It goes down to those two words, or last three words.
       
      Abuse OF Men BY Women: It Happens, It Hurts, and It's Time to Get Real About It

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      • Ann Silvers
      Comments 3
      • Mikealine Wallgren
        Mikealine Wallgren

        Wow I’m completely drained after reading that. She just goes round and round speaking in circles contradicting herself. Jesus life is to short for that nonsense. I’ve known people like her, they need drama for some reason. They will find a reason to fight just to get their fix

      • Ann Silvers
        Ann Silvers

        Hi “Slipped Cheese”. Thanks for the thanks. It was an incredible amount of work to do this analysis and create this post. Beyond the time involved, it was very challenging to listen to Amber abuse Johnny over and over as I tried to clean up the transcript in the parts where either of them spoke softly.

        I’m sorry for your experience as a target of a personality similar to Amber.

        Your description of what it’s like on the receiving end of abusers like Amber seems to be a spot-on description of Johnny’s torment: “imagine being completely aware of everything around you, the world about you, yet you’re unable to move, or speak, be or do anything, paralyzed but cognisant, with an ever-present threat to your wellbeing and safety never more than a step away.”

        -Ann

      • Slipped Cheese
        Slipped Cheese

        First: thank you for the article. I’m aware it will have required a significant amount of effort prior to writing it, the finished result is remarkable.

        I read this late last night, whilst in bed.

        It was an easy read in that you’ve created a sort of Venn diagram in word format. From an abused individual’s perspective, difficult, harrowing, emotive.

        I’ve (since) listened to some of the audio, as a means of understanding the tone, the nuances that come with speech; when reading the dialogue the mind is quiet, the interchange runs on, no mental intonation, no emotion, flat.

        Then I’ve reread the sections that I’ve listened to, which certainly adds a lot of flavour to the way in which it (then) reads.

        Amber Heard is an incredibly malignant individual. I believe my response to her M.O. is appropriate, objective, despite my experience of people of her ilk; I believe any rational person would feel the same moments of alarm, the same burgeoning anger, frustrations, horror.

        For the record, I’m neither shocked nor appalled – and that IS because I’ve encountered the same. The patterns of behaviours, the externalising of blame, victimhood, deflection, mirroring, the denigration, insults, circular, never ending discourse, the ‘ … Jesus Christ please, please, make this stop’ from the target’s perspective, evasion, control mechanisms, overbearing, manic, the bait/switch, the rapid change in tone and delivery of her speech, the audacity/arrogance, the staccato elocution, the tormenting, sniping, she’s relentless.

        When you look at the bigger picture (she should have that tattooed across her lips), you begin, as a casual observer, to understand the magnitude of the abuse suffered by Depp.

        As an ‘insider’ (I’m sure you’ll understand my meaning) it triggers every last emotion (all negative), the fear, the emotional/psychological pain, the fatigue, hurt, hopelessness, impotence, that feeling of being utterly and thoroughly trapped by bars that, whilst they remain intangible, invisible to others, they’re suffocating, present, inescapable, unequivocally tangible.

        This may be a leap, for anyone that hasn’t experienced the kind of abuse and trauma that comes from being abused by someone like Heard, it won’t be for someone that has experienced it: imagine being completely aware of everything around you, the world about you, yet you’re unable to move, or speak, be or do anything, paralysed but cognisant, with an ever present threat to your wellbeing and safety never more than a step away.

        These people really are THAT dangerous, damaging, insidious.

        This woman should not have pets, let alone a child. My entire childhood was ruled by just such a woman, and it does not make for anything other than a fragmented, decimated, violent childhood full of torture, confusion, fear, pain … that creates an incredibly broken adult.

        Again, thank you, an incredible piece of writing.

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